tea.mathoverflow.net - Discussion Feed (Linking in with StackOverlow & al) Sun, 04 Nov 2018 13:46:44 -0800 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.1.9 & Feed Publisher Noah Snyder comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6915) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6915#Comment_6915 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6915#Comment_6915 Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:53:58 -0700 Noah Snyder José Figueroa comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6914) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6914#Comment_6914 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6914#Comment_6914 Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:50:15 -0700 José Figueroa Would "buying ads" not be frowned upon by grant-giving organisations? Even if in effect this is what is being done, it's perhaps prudent that it not be billed as such.

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Noah Snyder comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6913) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6913#Comment_6913 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6913#Comment_6913 Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:39:33 -0700 Noah Snyder José Figueroa comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6906) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6906#Comment_6906 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6906#Comment_6906 Tue, 13 Jul 2010 05:40:13 -0700 José Figueroa For the record, Cornell is not dumping arXiv, they're simply not willing to continue funding it 100%. I blogged about it here

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Andrea comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6903) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6903#Comment_6903 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6903#Comment_6903 Tue, 13 Jul 2010 02:59:35 -0700 Andrea VP comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6896) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6896#Comment_6896 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6896#Comment_6896 Mon, 12 Jul 2010 23:02:56 -0700 VP Not disagreeing with theojf, but in the interests of accuracy, I would rank MathSciNet alongside arXiv (in fact, somewhat higher) in the list of most important research tools. And they should be compared for funding models purposes. Of course, just like everyone else, I would hate to see arXiv going the subscription-only route, but who knows what lies ahead? (I wasn't aware that Cornell is dumping arXiv, by the way.)

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theojf comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6860) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6860#Comment_6860 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6860#Comment_6860 Sun, 11 Jul 2010 22:01:45 -0700 theojf To the extent that I have any vote (which is to say: not at all), I strongly support adding "no ads" to the list of nonnegotiable demands. MO should be an academic site, supported by grants. (Just like the NSF really should step in and provide full support for arXiv, which I think is the single most important research tool in mathematics and physics in the world. Fortunately, their current funding model is "ask large academic libraries to support us", now that "ask Cornell to support us" is failing, and university libraries tend to be fairly against monetization.)

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Harry Gindi comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6858) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6858#Comment_6858 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6858#Comment_6858 Sun, 11 Jul 2010 19:36:44 -0700 Harry Gindi I apologize for my earlier comments. It was not my intention to hurt MO's reputation by calling GS names (that may or may not be applicable...).

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Anton Geraschenko comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6828) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6828#Comment_6828 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6828#Comment_6828 Sat, 10 Jul 2010 22:10:05 -0700 Anton Geraschenko @Everyone: I think we're getting ahead of ourselves. It's fine to have a discussion about what SO Inc's position should be, but it's a waste of time to get up in arms about terms of migration that don't even exist yet. Most of us at MO like SO and I'm pretty sure that SO Inc likes us, even though the purpose of SE has shifted since September. When migration is actually on the table, we'll see if we can make everybody happy. Until then, we're just speculating. For example, I'm pretty sure SE 2.0 site will have administrators. My email exchanges with Robert Cartaino have led me to believe that it's quite likely that MO will be able to migrate essentially unchanged. I'm as curious about what will happen as anybody else, but until SO Inc actually starts thinking about migrating SE 1.0 sites, the conversation has gone about as far as it productively can.

@Kyle: I hope Noah's answer and comment have clarified our position. I'm quite happy with SO, and I realize that they are interested in communities doing well. However, there's simply no guarantee that their interests won't conflict with ours. The point isn't that I really want to be a moderator on MO, it's that if there is ever a real conflict between SO and MO, somebody in the MO community has to have the power to completely move the site onto another platform. Maintaining ownership of the domain and access to full data dumps is necessary for that.

I certainly hope there won't ever be such a problem, but the whole point of negotiating a contract is that your relationship may change. If your friend promises to pay for all repairs to your house so long as you hand over the deed, it may sound like a great deal. After all, who cares whose name is on the paper? You keep living in your house, but somebody else pays for all the repairs. However, the name on the paper may become very important if your friend's interests ever start to diverge from yours. With any luck, you'll be friends forever, but you'd be a fool to treat that assumption as a certainty.

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Harry Gindi comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6825) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6825#Comment_6825 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6825#Comment_6825 Sat, 10 Jul 2010 16:33:30 -0700 Harry Gindi @Kyle: I don't understand why we couldn't just pay for SE2.0 like we would have paid for SE1.0...

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Noah Snyder comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6823) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6823#Comment_6823 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6823#Comment_6823 Sat, 10 Jul 2010 15:30:30 -0700 Noah Snyder kyle comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6822) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6822#Comment_6822 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6822#Comment_6822 Sat, 10 Jul 2010 15:19:03 -0700 kyle Noah Snyder comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6821) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6821#Comment_6821 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6821#Comment_6821 Sat, 10 Jul 2010 14:54:34 -0700 Noah Snyder Harry Gindi comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6818) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6818#Comment_6818 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6818#Comment_6818 Sat, 10 Jul 2010 13:54:15 -0700 Harry Gindi I second Andy's sentiment.

And Andrea's as well.

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Andrea comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6817) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6817#Comment_6817 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6817#Comment_6817 Sat, 10 Jul 2010 13:31:21 -0700 Andrea
Consider this example: I regularly use gThumb to tag and organize my photos. For a long time gThumb has not used stadard tags (ITPC, XMP...) inside the photos, but a custom system. As a result, I could not try any different photo manager, even I thought it was better. gThumb is still my favorite manager, but being trapped into it felt somehow limitating.

When MathOverflow was launched, the agreement was that we paid a monthly fee, and we could have control over the site. Now we are not requested to pay anymore, even if we would be glad to, but are not granted the same level of control (if we move to SE 2.0).

Consider, among other things, that Anton has often used his administrator rights to adjust CSS and JS to our needs, in particular support for LaTeX was added this way. ]]>
Andy Putman comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6813) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6813#Comment_6813 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6813#Comment_6813 Sat, 10 Jul 2010 13:15:33 -0700 Andy Putman kyle comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6811) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6811#Comment_6811 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6811#Comment_6811 Sat, 10 Jul 2010 12:59:36 -0700 kyle Steve Huntsman comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6809) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6809#Comment_6809 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6809#Comment_6809 Sat, 10 Jul 2010 12:33:55 -0700 Steve Huntsman Andrea comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6808) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6808#Comment_6808 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6808#Comment_6808 Sat, 10 Jul 2010 12:25:37 -0700 Andrea Harry Gindi comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6802) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6802#Comment_6802 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6802#Comment_6802 Sat, 10 Jul 2010 11:06:52 -0700 Harry Gindi Wow, those people are jerks.

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Suresh Venkat comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6800) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6800#Comment_6800 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6800#Comment_6800 Sat, 10 Jul 2010 10:26:54 -0700 Suresh Venkat Jacques Carette comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6398) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6398#Comment_6398 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6398#Comment_6398 Thu, 24 Jun 2010 12:07:26 -0700 Jacques Carette @Harry: lol!

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Harry Gindi comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6368) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6368#Comment_6368 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6368#Comment_6368 Thu, 24 Jun 2010 04:57:31 -0700 Harry Gindi @Jacques: By "us", do you mean you and your "other you" or you and your colleagues? ;)

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Jacques Carette comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6365) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6365#Comment_6365 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6365#Comment_6365 Thu, 24 Jun 2010 04:42:40 -0700 Jacques Carette :-). Perhaps we should create a probability section...

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Andrew Stacey comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6356) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6356#Comment_6356 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6356#Comment_6356 Wed, 23 Jun 2010 23:38:37 -0700 Andrew Stacey In the probability section?

(Well, someone had to say it)

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Jacques Carette comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6340) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6340#Comment_6340 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6340#Comment_6340 Wed, 23 Jun 2010 17:00:12 -0700 Jacques Carette
So we've accepted that some ads are ok. And different parts of the web site can get different ads. Throughout, it should be professional. Sponsors for activities like the 'math camps' (whether they are 'math' companies or not) will likely be allowed to put up ads in the 'math camps' section. The Journals part of the site would be an ad-free zone. The question that still nags us: is there anywhere on the site where we would allow an ad from pokerstars,net? [no joke, they asked, and were offering non-trivial $$$]. ]]>
Noah Snyder comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6226) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6226#Comment_6226 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6226#Comment_6226 Sun, 20 Jun 2010 09:42:11 -0700 Noah Snyder Scott Morrison comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6223) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6223#Comment_6223 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6223#Comment_6223 Sat, 19 Jun 2010 16:18:20 -0700 Scott Morrison Ads are a good point. Personally, I wouldn't make this a show stopper, but I think it's unlikely to be a problem. If Fog Creek want some revenue from us (as they should!), and suggest ads, we can quite seriously just offer to double what they expect to earn from ads.

One interesting long term possibility is an extension of Stack Overflow Careers to MathOverflow. Now, there are lots of reasons why this might be inappropriate --- in particular, no one is about to seriously propose changing the way that academic hiring works --- but there may well be more overlap between our user base and the people that certain companies are looking to hire than you might at first think. Stack Overflow Careers actually seems to do a pretty good job at its niche --- really good programming companies hiring really good programmers. If Fog Creek were interested in trying to monetize MathOverflow by creating a parallel, unobtrusive site for mathematicians to post CVs and companies to post mathematician-wanted ads, then I wouldn't object at all, and good luck to them! :-)

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Noah Snyder comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6222) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6222#Comment_6222 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6222#Comment_6222 Sat, 19 Jun 2010 15:26:40 -0700 Noah Snyder Jacques Carette comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6219) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6219#Comment_6219 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6219#Comment_6219 Sat, 19 Jun 2010 11:52:43 -0700 Jacques Carette
@Scott: thanks for the detailed answer. Very clear. ]]>
Noah Snyder comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6216) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6216#Comment_6216 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6216#Comment_6216 Sat, 19 Jun 2010 08:45:33 -0700 Noah Snyder Scott Morrison comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6215) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6215#Comment_6215 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6215#Comment_6215 Sat, 19 Jun 2010 08:35:05 -0700 Scott Morrison @Jacques,

yes. Essentially, the StackExchange people have told us that we can migrate, and they'll contact us at some point about the details of how this will work. We've been told that there is some scope for negotiating with existing StackExchange sites about the actual terms of the migration, but (to my knowledge) this hasn't actually happened at all yet. The StackExchange people like us --- Anton has talked, in person and via email, with a number of people in the company, including Joel Spolsky, right at the top, and we generally get the impression they want to treat us right. On the other hand, it's been a slightly frustrating process not hearing much from them about the transition to 2.0. We have a set of 3 incontrovertible requirements for switching, all of which go against the rules for new StackExchange 2.0 sites.

  1. Anton maintains personal ownership of the mathoverflow.net domain name.
  2. We continue to have access to the full unsanitized database dumps.
  3. Anton continues to have administrator privileges on the site.

(re: 2, all of the StackExchange 2.0 sites will have public data dumps equivalent to what we already provide here. At present, only Anton has access to the unsanitized dumps, and the main purpose of these is so that we can in principle jump ship to an alternative software base.)

So --- we're waiting and seeing, for now!

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Jacques Carette comments on "Linking in with StackOverlow & al" (6210) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6210#Comment_6210 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/454/linking-in-with-stackoverlow-al/?Focus=6210#Comment_6210 Sat, 19 Jun 2010 07:48:32 -0700 Jacques Carette