tea.mathoverflow.net - Discussion Feed (Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki) Sun, 04 Nov 2018 13:46:37 -0800 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.1.9 & Feed Publisher Scott Morrison comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7264) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7264#Comment_7264 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7264#Comment_7264 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 20:14:14 -0700 Scott Morrison By the way, if anyone is interested in exact timestamps in the edit history, hover your mouse over the where it says "answered yesterday" or similar, and a tooltip will pop up with the exact timestamp.

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Scott Morrison comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7263) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7263#Comment_7263 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7263#Comment_7263 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 20:11:53 -0700 Scott Morrison Per jbl's excellent solution, I am about to close this thread. Feel free to begin a new thread for any technical or policy questions which remain to be addressed!

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Harry Gindi comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7262) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7262#Comment_7262 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7262#Comment_7262 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 19:53:20 -0700 Harry Gindi I would just like to say that Mariano is among the most helpful people I've encountered on the entire internet (on IRC and here as well). It seems rather clear that he acted with no malice. Bill, your description doesn't ring true.

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jbl comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7261) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7261#Comment_7261 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7261#Comment_7261 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 19:41:39 -0700 jbl Since you asked, yes, I think Mariano's behavior is completely reasonable, and I also think that you are acting hysterical. I repeat that if you don't want other people to edit your posts then you shouldn't participate in fora in which that is a realistic possibility.

Comment for everyone except Bill:
In my opinion it is clear that
1) Mariano acted reasonably,
2) Bill is acting unreasonably, and
3) Bill is never going to agree with statements 1 or 2.
It seems to me that further comments addressed to Bill that are based on the presumption that he will respond reasonably are unlikely to serve any productive purpose (unless "hosting ridiculous flame wars" is considered productive on meta). Instead, I think it would be nice if we (you) could work out a consensus about what should be done now. My suggestion is to close this thread and take to another thread any substantive discussion of technical issues. ]]>
Bill Dubuque comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7259) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7259#Comment_7259 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7259#Comment_7259 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 18:39:56 -0700 Bill Dubuque
Again, I ask: do moderators condone Pete L. Clark's insult-laden rant above? Does high-rep grant insult privileges? ]]>
Anton Geraschenko comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7258) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7258#Comment_7258 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7258#Comment_7258 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 18:21:12 -0700 Anton Geraschenko For what it's worth, I second Scott. @Bill: I don't know what your relationship with Mariano is, but I don't see any evidence of malice on his part. You're not the only one who knows the timeline ... it's available for anybody to see:
2010-07-18 15:25:17Z UTC. Mariano commits his change
2010-07-18 15:25:38Z UTC. You commit a change (21 seconds later!)
2010-07-18 15:34:56Z UTC. Mariano commits same change again

It seems pretty clear to me that the two of you were editing simultaneously, which caused the confusion. Note that Mariano hasn't made any attempt to revert your rollback. Note also that Mariano's edit did not contribute to the conversion to CW. I really don't understand what there is to get worked up about.

If you're really worried that somebody will edit one of your posts in a way you don't want, you can flag it for moderator attention, asking for it to be locked. To some extent, this will take it out of circulation. People won't be able to comment or vote on it--locking is meant as a tool to avoid flame wars. You won't be able to edit it either. I would reserve this for situations where there is an actual edit war.

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Bill Dubuque comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7256) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7256#Comment_7256 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7256#Comment_7256 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 17:47:54 -0700 Bill Dubuque FYI: There was no problem with simultaneous editing. I know the timeline. Mariano knew precisely what he was doing and he knew that it would upset me. Ditto for Pete Clark's unprovoked insults above and elsewhere. There was absolutely no need whatsoever for Pete L. Clark and Mariano Suárez-Alvarez to continue exercising their prior grudges in this forum. I took great care to avoid any tension in posts where we crossed paths here. Anyone can review my posts here and see that. I 'm very disappointed that the same courtesy was not returned. In any case now that this is all out in the open I hope that will be the end of it - forever. ]]> Emerton comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7254) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7254#Comment_7254 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7254#Comment_7254 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 17:16:32 -0700 Emerton Dear Harry,

Australian, actually.

Cheers,

Matthew

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Harry Gindi comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7253) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7253#Comment_7253 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7253#Comment_7253 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:11:45 -0700 Harry Gindi

Let's get back to the mathematics, eh?

Says the fake Canadian, eh?

;)

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Scott Morrison comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7252) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7252#Comment_7252 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7252#Comment_7252 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:08:32 -0700 Scott Morrison @Bill, I don't particularly care much about anyone's behavior on other forums, and yes, I (with my moderator hat on) condone Mariano's action here. He made a minor copyedit, following usual conventions. It appears that there was a problem with simultaneous editing, for which no one is to blame.

Let's get back to the mathematics, eh?

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Bill Dubuque comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7251) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7251#Comment_7251 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7251#Comment_7251 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:25:49 -0700 Bill Dubuque Andy Putman comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7250) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7250#Comment_7250 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7250#Comment_7250 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:11:16 -0700 Andy Putman
In any case, I'm done with this thread. Somehow I can never resist arguing with bullies, though given how unproductive those arguments are, you'd think I'd have learned by now... ]]>
Bill Dubuque comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7249) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7249#Comment_7249 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7249#Comment_7249 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:04:35 -0700 Bill Dubuque Noah Snyder comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7248) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7248#Comment_7248 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7248#Comment_7248 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:57:22 -0700 Noah Snyder Bill Dubuque comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7247) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7247#Comment_7247 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7247#Comment_7247 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:56:49 -0700 Bill Dubuque Andy Putman comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7246) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7246#Comment_7246 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7246#Comment_7246 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:45:02 -0700 Andy Putman Bill Dubuque comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7245) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7245#Comment_7245 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7245#Comment_7245 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:22:07 -0700 Bill Dubuque WillieWong comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7244) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7244#Comment_7244 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7244#Comment_7244 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:31:40 -0700 WillieWong Also, guys, for what it's worth, Mariano already explained that he (perhaps mistakenly) believed that Bill's first revert was a case of "simultaneous editing," and thus entered his changes a second time. (About 19 posts up.) This suggests to me that he didn't mean it to be ill-mannered or ill-willed.

I'm inclined to take Mariano's word for it in view of the fact that Bill's first "revert" was not,in fact, logged as a revert, but as an editing change.

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Bill Dubuque comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7243) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7243#Comment_7243 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7243#Comment_7243 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:27:21 -0700 Bill Dubuque Robin Chapman comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7242) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7242#Comment_7242 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7242#Comment_7242 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:09:18 -0700 Robin Chapman convention to italicize phrases from other languages. There
are other typographical conventions involving italics, for
instance that letters used as mathematical variables be
typeset in italic. What baffled me was that in later edits
Bill retained the italicization of "resistance" but dropped
that of "piece de" (please forgive my lack of accents).
I cannot fathom the rationale for this. ]]>
Andy Putman comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7241) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7241#Comment_7241 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7241#Comment_7241 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:06:07 -0700 Andy Putman Pete L. Clark comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7240) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7240#Comment_7240 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7240#Comment_7240 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:05:53 -0700 Pete L. Clark Mariano's edits consisted of italicizing and adding proper French accents to the phrase pièce de résistance. This is a rather standard copyediting practice for foreign phrases in English text in general and for this phrase in particular: e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piece_de_resistance. Copyediting of posts on SO sites is (at least) implicitly encouraged by the existence of the "Strunk and White" badge.

I confess that I am not very surprised by Mr. Dubuque's response. On a different post, he wrote about "Puiseaux series". If almost anyone else had written that, I would have edited it to "Puiseux series". But my experiences have taught me that it is not profitable to engage Mr. Dubuque on any issues except the most explicitly mathematical ones. I also find that (in my opinion, obviously) Mr. Dubuque very often expresses his opinions in unpleasantly extreme ways. He does, however, have a lot of mathematical insight: I try to keep my eye on that as much as possible.

Finally, I do think that if you copyedit someone's answer and your changes are rolled back, it is most polite not to make the changes a second time but rather (if you feel it's worth it) post comments to the answer or here at the meta site. [Added later: apparently it is not clear that this comment applies to the present situation. Please take it then as a general opinion.]

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Bill Dubuque comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7239) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7239#Comment_7239 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7239#Comment_7239 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:01:33 -0700 Bill Dubuque Mark Meckes comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7238) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7238#Comment_7238 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7238#Comment_7238 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:00:53 -0700 Mark Meckes Am I correct in guessing that the "emphasis" Bill is referring to is italicization of "piece de resistance"? If so, I'd guess Mariano did not intend the italicization as emphasis. It is common (not universal) practice to italicize phrases from foreign languages.

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Andy Putman comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7237) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7237#Comment_7237 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7237#Comment_7237 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:57:34 -0700 Andy Putman Bill Dubuque comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7236) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7236#Comment_7236 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7236#Comment_7236 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:53:55 -0700 Bill Dubuque Andy Putman comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7235) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7235#Comment_7235 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7235#Comment_7235 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:51:39 -0700 Andy Putman Bill Dubuque comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7234) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7234#Comment_7234 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7234#Comment_7234 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:47:53 -0700 Bill Dubuque @Kevin: please read more carefully: the discussion has nothing to do with accent marks. ]]> Andy Putman comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7233) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7233#Comment_7233 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7233#Comment_7233 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:46:05 -0700 Andy Putman Kevin Lin comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7232) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7232#Comment_7232 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7232#Comment_7232 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:44:58 -0700 Kevin Lin I would not interpret accent marks as being "pompous", and I should hope that most other people here would not either.

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Bill Dubuque comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7231) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7231#Comment_7231 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7231#Comment_7231 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:43:09 -0700 Bill Dubuque Robin Chapman comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7230) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7230#Comment_7230 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7230#Comment_7230 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:36:46 -0700 Robin Chapman "abuse and gaming of the system"
constitutes Mariano inserting accents in the phrase
"piece de resistance"? ]]>
Bill Dubuque comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7229) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7229#Comment_7229 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7229#Comment_7229 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:10:23 -0700 Bill Dubuque @moderators: does MO condone Mariano's behavior? ]]> jbl comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7228) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7228#Comment_7228 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7228#Comment_7228 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:07:12 -0700 jbl Bill Dubuque comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7226) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7226#Comment_7226 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7226#Comment_7226 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 10:36:52 -0700 Bill Dubuque
For the record here are the details of the edit: recall that my post [1] was about the universality of polynomial identities, and one of my main points in the post was to encourage readers to *resist* the temptation to dive in head first and apply brute-force topological arguments (e.g. by density) when their are much simpler algebraic solutions (by universality). The last example I presented in my post was how to universally define polynomial derivatives and prove the product rule. Enjoying wordplay humor, I jokingly introduced it as the "piece de resistance (of limits, density...)" . My intent was for it to be interpreted as: here's a better/simpler example of *resisting* topological arguments by way of universality. Mariano's edit explicitly added emphasis to the phrase "piece de resistance" - thus making it much more likely that the remark could be misconstrued pompously. Moreover, when I rolled back Mariano's edit he immediately reintroduced it by rolling back my correction, so I had to rollback Mariano's edit a second time to get rid of his so-called "Tiny display of pedancy".

[1] http://mathoverflow.net/questions/32133/expressing-adja-as-a-polynomial-in-a/32343#32343 ]]>
Akhil Mathew comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7225) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7225#Comment_7225 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7225#Comment_7225 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 10:14:51 -0700 Akhil Mathew Scott Morrison comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7222) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7222#Comment_7222 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7222#Comment_7222 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 07:25:09 -0700 Scott Morrison I think the bigger point here is that "community wiki" just isn't that bad an outcome, and I'd encourage people to not mind their posts being converted to community wiki.

Your text is already CC licensed and editable by many users. Becoming CW just means you don't get further reputation from the post (no big deal, right? that's not what we're here for?) and that a larger pool of people are now allowed to edit. If anything, take having your post CW'd a badge of honour --- the post didn't languish in obscurity, but rather was read and digested by several people, to at least the level they thought they could contribute to it! Wow!

If you're really concerned about the fact the software gives you slightly less attribution after a post moves into CW mode, feel free to edit the post to add your signature as the last line.

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WillieWong comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7209) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7209#Comment_7209 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7209#Comment_7209 Mon, 19 Jul 2010 03:35:47 -0700 WillieWong @Mariano: being a curmudgeon myself about typos and such, I sympathize with the urge. In the end it probably just boils down to our different level of tolerance. By-and-by, I wasn't pointing fingers or anything; it was just a poor way of saying that you made some changes which I personally would not have bothered with (even had I the power).

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Mariano comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7202) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7202#Comment_7202 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7202#Comment_7202 Sun, 18 Jul 2010 20:57:40 -0700 Mariano Hmm.

I have historically corrected quite a few typos in both questions and answers, and this is what I did here. In particular, I have added diacritics a few times, in some cases with knowledge that the original author did not know how to type them, and in other cases with the presumption that that was the case. In this special case, I insisted in the edit because I assumed this was a case of simultaneous edits (it would not have been the first time) and because, according to the FAQ, the second edit would not have been counted in turning the answer into CW---not even in terms of author-count, I had already edited the answer.

(@Willie: "a space and a comma? Come on..", If you look at the changelog, you'll see that I changed that only the second time. It required zero energy to do, and it removed a typo. Maybe it is just me but typos do make things more difficult to read for me!)

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WillieWong comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7193) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7193#Comment_7193 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7193#Comment_7193 Sun, 18 Jul 2010 13:54:59 -0700 WillieWong @Bill: yeah, unfortunately jsMath is platform dependent. It works almost perfectly in Firefox for me, but I hit odd rendering problems every now and then with Opera.

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Harry Gindi comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7192) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7192#Comment_7192 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7192#Comment_7192 Sun, 18 Jul 2010 13:32:33 -0700 Harry Gindi @Anton: This is often what happens when the LaTeX "bugs out". It happens seemingly randomly, and the symptoms are that the LaTeX output comes apart and smears letters all over the screen (usually on the righthand side). I can alert you to it whenever I see it, if you want.

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Bill Dubuque comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7191) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7191#Comment_7191 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7191#Comment_7191 Sun, 18 Jul 2010 13:32:22 -0700 Bill Dubuque Anton Geraschenko comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7190) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7190#Comment_7190 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7190#Comment_7190 Sun, 18 Jul 2010 13:23:19 -0700 Anton Geraschenko

I should add that the reason I committed some of the edits is because the preview window seems to have some problems, so the only way I could be sure how the jsmath would render is by committing them. Is there no sandbox which one can use to perform successive iterations avoiding the edit limit?

What problems, specifically? In the early days, there were some issues with the client side preview manager not matching up with how markdown is handled by the server, but I think all those have been resolved. Can you give a specific example of something where the preview did not match the final output?

Regarding a sandbox, you can try faketestsite.stackexchange.com. It's using MathJax instead of jsMath right now (we expect to switch MO to MathJax in the not-too-distant future), but just about any difference between the preview and final output should be apparent there.

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WillieWong comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7187) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7187#Comment_7187 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7187#Comment_7187 Sun, 18 Jul 2010 13:22:03 -0700 WillieWong @Bill: I just started a new thread on the very matter in your last post. Please take a look and comment!

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Bill Dubuque comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7185) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7185#Comment_7185 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7185#Comment_7185 Sun, 18 Jul 2010 13:18:10 -0700 Bill Dubuque Bill Dubuque comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7184) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7184#Comment_7184 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7184#Comment_7184 Sun, 18 Jul 2010 13:14:05 -0700 Bill Dubuque WillieWong comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7183) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7183#Comment_7183 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7183#Comment_7183 Sun, 18 Jul 2010 13:07:44 -0700 WillieWong @Bill: the algorithm is precisely not smart, and cannot (nor was it ever intended for it to) tell apart the two different sort of edits. I respect your opinions on what the rules should be and what their implementation, but I should note that the rules of the game have been written down in plain view, so forgive me if I find the specifics of this complaint (that you want to revert a post to non-CW) a bit hollow. But the more general aspect of your complaint (about the implementation of the 8-edit rule) deserves more discussion, and I think it may be good to start a new thread about this.

Also, just a technical note: I am not sure if you can post another answer to a question if you have currently a deleted answer. I seem to remember that when clicking the delete button it warns you that you won't be able to make a new answer after deleting a current one. But I may be remembering incorrectly.

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Anton Geraschenko comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7182) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7182#Comment_7182 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7182#Comment_7182 Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:58:09 -0700 Anton Geraschenko Sorry, but there's no way for me or any other moderator to remove CW status from a post (see this meta.SE request). The software forces a post into CW mode after edits by four different users or after eight edits. The basic reasoning in the case of four different users is that it stops being reasonable for one person to accumulate rep when it's not so clear who "owns" the material any more. The basic reasoning in the case of eight edits by the owner is that the mechanism prevents people from trying to game the software (e.g. by bumping their question/answer once every 30 minutes). I'm pretty convinced that both of these mechanisms need to be there in some form.

Though I would like to see moderators have the ability to remove CW status in exceptional cases, I think the current automatic mechanism is pretty good. It does happen that a post is forced into CW mode when it "shouldn't be" because the frequent editing was "legitimate", but I think it's pretty rare. There's hardly anything surprising or disturbing about the software not handling every case exactly right. Even if it were an option, I would be opposed to making the rules for when a post is converted to CW randomly more complicated.

Edit: btw, there is a mechanism in place to protect compulsive editors to some degree. Edits made within a five minute period all get counted as a single edit, not as a bunch of separated edits.

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WillieWong comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7181) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7181#Comment_7181 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7181#Comment_7181 Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:50:27 -0700 WillieWong Most of the problems in the preview window happens with the underscore character in math formulae. When that happens the rendering goes bonkers and parts of your text appears italicized/mathmoded. To fix that put the offending math formula inside backticks/accent graves.

If you were having other problems, please described them. It may warrant a bug report.

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Bill Dubuque comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7180) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7180#Comment_7180 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7180#Comment_7180 Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:48:32 -0700 Bill Dubuque Bill Dubuque comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7179) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7179#Comment_7179 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7179#Comment_7179 Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:44:25 -0700 Bill Dubuque WillieWong comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7178) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7178#Comment_7178 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7178#Comment_7178 Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:44:02 -0700 WillieWong Also, the system as it is has the side benefit of forcing people to be more careful about what they write.

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WillieWong comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7177) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7177#Comment_7177 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7177#Comment_7177 Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:43:15 -0700 WillieWong @Bill, please read my comment that appeared right before yours. I don't think other users can force your post into CW (unless 4 high rep users gang up on you and each makes an edit). The edits by Mariano and the revert didn't count toward the 8. And I suspect that this is intentionally built into the software to prevent precisely what your last post is complaining about.

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Bill Dubuque comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7176) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7176#Comment_7176 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7176#Comment_7176 Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:38:15 -0700 Bill Dubuque WillieWong comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7175) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7175#Comment_7175 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7175#Comment_7175 Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:38:12 -0700 WillieWong While I don't completely agree with Mariano's edit of your answer (a space and a comma? Come on..) I don't think that in itself is what pushed the edit over the limit. As I understood it the limit is hit when the original owner edits 8 times. So I don't think his edits counted toward the eight (or the FAQ needs to be rewritten), nor do I think, did your roll-backs. According to the revision history it only became community wiki after the 12th version. Which meant that the two pedantic edits by Mariano and your revert to version 7 didn't count toward the limit.

You should really proofread and check over your typing before clicking submit...

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Harry Gindi comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7174) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7174#Comment_7174 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7174#Comment_7174 Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:32:57 -0700 Harry Gindi @Bill: I totally agree, but there is nothing we can do. It is built into the software. If you had just quietly deleted your post and reposted it in a new answer, I don't think anyone would have noticed/cared, but I think now that you brought people's attention to it, you might have a tougher time.

I see no problem with you deleting/reposting (note: I have no authority at all), but I think that some people here might be annoyed if you circumvent the system. I say that you should just go for it and not worry about actual consequences, because at the absolute worst, the moderators will re-CW your answer if they feel so inclined.

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Robin Chapman comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7173) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7173#Comment_7173 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7173#Comment_7173 Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:30:09 -0700 Robin Chapman repeatedly bumping their questions/answers to the top of the
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Bill Dubuque comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7172) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7172#Comment_7172 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7172#Comment_7172 Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:12:00 -0700 Bill Dubuque Bill Dubuque comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7171) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7171#Comment_7171 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7171#Comment_7171 Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:10:03 -0700 Bill Dubuque Qiaochu Yuan comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7170) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7170#Comment_7170 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7170#Comment_7170 Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:05:40 -0700 Qiaochu Yuan This issue's come up before. My guess at an explanation is that the software assumes that if a post is being edited many times, it is being edited by many people, so the corresponding reputation should no longer "belong" to the original poster. That, or maybe it was designed to prevent malicious editing from negatively impacting the original poster's reputation.

I really hope you won't delete the post and repost it; you'll lose all the comments that way, and I think they are valuable.

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WillieWong comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7169) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7169#Comment_7169 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7169#Comment_7169 Sun, 18 Jul 2010 11:57:37 -0700 WillieWong On the one hand, I sympathize with you, but on the other, caveat emptor. http://mathoverflow.net/faq#communitywiki

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Bill Dubuque comments on "Help, 8 edits turned my reply into Community Wiki" (7168) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7168#Comment_7168 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/518/help-8-edits-turned-my-reply-into-community-wiki/?Focus=7168#Comment_7168 Sun, 18 Jul 2010 11:55:21 -0700 Bill Dubuque
If there is no way to undo the CW how can I delete the post and repost it?

[1] http://mathoverflow.net/questions/32133/expressing-adja-as-a-polynomial-in-a/32343#32343 ]]>