tea.mathoverflow.net - Discussion Feed (If we were more responsible.....) Sun, 04 Nov 2018 13:37:45 -0800 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.1.9 & Feed Publisher Harry Gindi comments on "If we were more responsible....." (19027) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=19027#Comment_19027 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=19027#Comment_19027 Mon, 07 May 2012 09:30:18 -0700 Harry Gindi :::: (12:31:35) :::: ! fpqc wonders what constitutes competence in history

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geraldedgar comments on "If we were more responsible....." (19026) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=19026#Comment_19026 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=19026#Comment_19026 Sat, 05 May 2012 05:59:02 -0700 geraldedgar @Mike3: At all of those schools (or at least the vast majority of them) a student CAN get competence by doing the work assigned, and asking the professor for help if needed. Let us imagine a history course. One student gets his term paper from the internet, and passes the course, but gets no competence. A second student writes his own term paper (asking the professor for help in finding references to use) and DOES get competence. But of course all the work on the term paper cuts down on his PARTY TIME, which is more important!!! On the other side, investigating term papers for plagiarism would cut down on the professor's RESEARCH TIME, which is more important!!!

But, as noted, this type of discussion probably belongs elsewhere...

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mike3 comments on "If we were more responsible....." (19025) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=19025#Comment_19025 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=19025#Comment_19025 Fri, 04 May 2012 21:24:08 -0700 mike3 Alexander Woo comments on "If we were more responsible....." (19010) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=19010#Comment_19010 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=19010#Comment_19010 Tue, 01 May 2012 08:17:47 -0700 Alexander Woo Mike Benfield comments on "If we were more responsible....." (19004) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=19004#Comment_19004 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=19004#Comment_19004 Sat, 28 Apr 2012 11:06:02 -0700 Mike Benfield
I'll take a look at the academia.SE site and see if it's possible to turn this into an appropriate question there. ]]>
Asaf Karagila comments on "If we were more responsible....." (19003) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=19003#Comment_19003 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=19003#Comment_19003 Sat, 28 Apr 2012 09:19:22 -0700 Asaf Karagila @Mike, I agree with deane.yang on this. Perhaps the new academia.SE site will be a good place to discuss that (although SE sites are never a good place to discuss something...)

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deane.yang comments on "If we were more responsible....." (19002) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=19002#Comment_19002 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=19002#Comment_19002 Sat, 28 Apr 2012 07:38:40 -0700 deane.yang Mike Benfield comments on "If we were more responsible....." (19001) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=19001#Comment_19001 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=19001#Comment_19001 Sat, 28 Apr 2012 06:36:49 -0700 Mike Benfield
I know this is not exactly on topic, but... this phenomenon (that a ridiculous number of students at many schools manage to graduate without any competence in their disciplines or, on a smaller level, that students in a given course don't really learn much of the material covered) is something I am very interested in discussing or reading about. It seems to go completely unacknowledged among the professors I know, but seems very plainly true. Is this something people know but pretend not to for various reasons? Or is this an unpopular opinion, and most people don't really believe this happens? I don't suppose there is some forum where it would be appropriate to discuss this issue, or someone here who would like to exchange a few thoughts about it via email? I am a little reluctant to bring it up with the professors I know in person. ("Don't you think a significant portion of your professional life is a waste of time?") ]]>
Donu Arapura comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18974) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18974#Comment_18974 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18974#Comment_18974 Tue, 24 Apr 2012 07:42:06 -0700 Donu Arapura Harry Gindi comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18965) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18965#Comment_18965 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18965#Comment_18965 Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:42:56 -0700 Harry Gindi @Mariano: Come back to irc, we miss you dearly.

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Yemon Choi comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18964) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18964#Comment_18964 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18964#Comment_18964 Mon, 23 Apr 2012 18:55:24 -0700 Yemon Choi If they should not have been asking it, it is their problem.

Actually, no. It seems like it would be the problem of the poor sod who went to the trouble of writing an exam.

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Bill Johnson comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18963) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18963#Comment_18963 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18963#Comment_18963 Mon, 23 Apr 2012 18:28:21 -0700 Bill Johnson Back to my original post. Someone asked recently

If $A$ and $B$ are bounded non empty subsets of the reals, is glb$(A)\le$ glb(B)$? Upon prompting, the OP agreed that the question should have also said that $A$ is a subset of $B$.

A MO member (OK, a student) suggested posting in on SE.

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Mariano comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18962) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18962#Comment_18962 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18962#Comment_18962 Mon, 23 Apr 2012 16:58:16 -0700 Mariano @Harry, someone does some stupid in Michigan and it magically becomes the responsability of people who did not even know about the existence of the exam?

If someone asks me a question, I will do my best to answer. And this on MO, math.SE, the bar at my university, #math, &c. If they should not have been asking it, it is their problem.

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Bill Johnson comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18961) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18961#Comment_18961 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18961#Comment_18961 Mon, 23 Apr 2012 16:21:23 -0700 Bill Johnson Nice argument, George.

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Will Jagy comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18960) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18960#Comment_18960 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18960#Comment_18960 Mon, 23 Apr 2012 16:21:12 -0700 Will Jagy <strike>I _think_ I can prove......... need.</strike> ]]> Yemon Choi comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18959) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18959#Comment_18959 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18959#Comment_18959 Mon, 23 Apr 2012 15:54:10 -0700 Yemon Choi My thanks to Will for bringing up the question (I think this is the second time he has done this, and the second time that someone reading on meta has provided a solution) and for promoting it. Thanks also to George for the solution, which I will try to read later once my sleep-deprived brain has rebooted. Several other inequalities in Rider's paper also have a probabilistic feel, so I think George's argument is very likely to be more or less what the author had in mind.

I can't claim any "unfortunate sense of propriety" as I was really following the example set by Matt Daws, cf. this question. To be fair, I had intended to move the question over here in the next few days if no solution turned up on MSE. But thanks for the moral flattery :)

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Will Jagy comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18958) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18958#Comment_18958 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18958#Comment_18958 Mon, 23 Apr 2012 15:48:13 -0700 Will Jagy George Lowther comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18957) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18957#Comment_18957 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18957#Comment_18957 Mon, 23 Apr 2012 15:24:56 -0700 George Lowther @Will: I was lurking here on meta, which is how I saw that question.

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Will Jagy comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18956) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18956#Comment_18956 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18956#Comment_18956 Mon, 23 Apr 2012 14:55:43 -0700 Will Jagy grp comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18955) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18955#Comment_18955 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18955#Comment_18955 Mon, 23 Apr 2012 13:34:26 -0700 grp
(I liked the approach taken by the organizers of a recent US Sudoku competition, when they challenged the validity of the initial 3rd place winner: they gave him the same tests to take over again under supervised conditions, and the second time he was unable to complete them, much less post qualifying times. It may still be possible to deal with such things on a per-student basis.)

Gerhard "Ask Me About Supplemental Education" Paseman, 2012.04.23 ]]>
Asaf Karagila comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18954) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18954#Comment_18954 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18954#Comment_18954 Mon, 23 Apr 2012 12:33:14 -0700 Asaf Karagila Harry, I saw on the deleted list several closed and deleted questions which someone pointed out were from the said exam.

I can assure you that as soon as the moderators see these things they get deleted, and if they don't see them fast enough the 20k users (which are capable deleting closed posts immediately without a day+ waiting period) usually do that.

You are wrong to say, by the way, that math.SE is not "run by people in the mathematical community". It is true that the software and the servers are maintained by the SE guys, but the moderators of the site are two "fully licensed" mathematicians and two mathematics students (there should be another moderators election soon). All of which are also MO users by the way. No one supports cheating on math.SE, the fact that people are willing to help with a homework problem is a whole other thing. When a user is found to be using math.SE for cheating in take-home exams (which is a whole other thing compared to asking a homework question) they are almost always banned (I cannot recall a time when they weren't).

Dishonest people existed long before the internet and math.SE (or MO for that matter), and they will continue to exist long long after the internet will collapse and we will resort to carrier pigeons sending binary strings across vast distances again. Had the said student used a different forum? IRC chats? Usenet? went to a different university and asked a professor there? How would that be any different?

If anything the fact that the student used math.SE made it visible and easier to know that someone has been cheating.

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simoncfr comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18953) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18953#Comment_18953 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18953#Comment_18953 Mon, 23 Apr 2012 11:53:39 -0700 simoncfr Harry Gindi comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18952) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18952#Comment_18952 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18952#Comment_18952 Mon, 23 Apr 2012 11:42:41 -0700 Harry Gindi I just heard from someone affected that it is now the second year in a row that an idiot in the honors intro sequence (295-296 + 395-396) at Michigan posted take-home exam questions on math.SE, thereby invalidating the results of the exam and forcing all of the other students to take a quickly-thrown-together in-class exam. It is a very serious problem, but since math.SE is not run by people in the mathematical community (and is also home to many people who are willing to do other people's homework problems in order to get points), it doesn't seem like there's any sort of obvious answer. We could try to petition stackexchange and ask them to crack down on cheating, but I can't imagine we'll have too much success.

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Alexander Woo comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18951) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18951#Comment_18951 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18951#Comment_18951 Mon, 23 Apr 2012 10:52:17 -0700 Alexander Woo
Then again, by that argument, it's not clear what departments these places should bother having at all. ]]>
Bill Johnson comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18950) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18950#Comment_18950 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18950#Comment_18950 Mon, 23 Apr 2012 09:20:10 -0700 Bill Johnson Yemon's question looks to me a good one for MO.

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grp comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18949) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18949#Comment_18949 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18949#Comment_18949 Mon, 23 Apr 2012 09:17:15 -0700 grp
Gerhard "Ask Me About Questionable Propriety" Paseman, 2012.04.23 ]]>
Will Jagy comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18947) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18947#Comment_18947 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18947#Comment_18947 Sun, 22 Apr 2012 16:34:15 -0700 Will Jagy
For those who fear contagion, it is the proof of Lemma 5.1 in http://www.ams.org/journals/tran/1973-186-00/S0002-9947-1973-0340961-0/home.html that lacks detail. Yemon took a special case and made that an MSE question. Daniel Rider died in 2008. I have written to one student (Ng) and one occasional co-author (J. Marshall Ash), maybe something will come of that. My computer experiments say the damned thing is true, and I finally found out why the exponent 1/2 is (probably) correct and in any case optimal... See also http://arxiv.org/abs/0705.0636 ]]>
Asaf Karagila comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18946) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18946#Comment_18946 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18946#Comment_18946 Sun, 22 Apr 2012 15:42:03 -0700 Asaf Karagila @Will: Maybe no one can do it because his question does not violate any homework related rules? :-)

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Will Jagy comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18945) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18945#Comment_18945 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18945#Comment_18945 Sun, 22 Apr 2012 15:28:05 -0700 Will Jagy Michael Greinecker comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18944) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18944#Comment_18944 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18944#Comment_18944 Sun, 22 Apr 2012 13:28:29 -0700 Michael Greinecker Andy Putman comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18943) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18943#Comment_18943 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18943#Comment_18943 Sun, 22 Apr 2012 11:05:09 -0700 Andy Putman
Honor codes are also not universal. My own institution (Rice University) has an honor system that works pretty well; however, I remember when I was a grad student at the University of Chicago someone asked Paul Sally at a teaching meeting whether Chicago had an honor system. His response was "An `honor system' usually means that the faculty have the honor and the students have a system'". ]]>
Spice the Bird comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18942) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18942#Comment_18942 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18942#Comment_18942 Sun, 22 Apr 2012 08:57:51 -0700 Spice the Bird Asaf Karagila comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18941) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18941#Comment_18941 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18941#Comment_18941 Sun, 22 Apr 2012 06:40:05 -0700 Asaf Karagila If I were told that as a mathematician I will not be allowed to ask other mathematicians, consult the internet, books, or other people in general I would probably quit now and find something else to do.

I understand that this is how the system in the USA works, but you have to remember that a lot of the users on the internet are not from the USA, and are not signed on this strange "honors code" which disallow discussions like that. If people respect the honors code, then surely most of the student asking homework questions are not those signed on this paper to begin with.

Lastly, I should point out, people that cheat and fail tackling problems are not likely to become competent mathematicians, and will likely fail or retire from mathematics eventually. People that enjoy mathematics, even if they do get the solutions given to them, will sit to understand them on their own. How different is that from finding the solution in a book or a journal?

(Yes, I am well aware - from my own experience as well - to the vast difference between reading through an endless pile of books and asking someone, even your professor, for help. However if you wish to learn you will learn. The powers of curiosity are amazing.)

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markvs comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18940) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18940#Comment_18940 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18940#Comment_18940 Sun, 22 Apr 2012 06:27:02 -0700 markvs Asaf Karagila comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18939) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18939#Comment_18939 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18939#Comment_18939 Sun, 22 Apr 2012 06:03:52 -0700 Asaf Karagila So asking my friends for help is illegal? Interesting life you have there in the USA.

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markvs comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18938) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18938#Comment_18938 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18938#Comment_18938 Sun, 22 Apr 2012 05:41:54 -0700 markvs Asaf Karagila comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18937) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18937#Comment_18937 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18937#Comment_18937 Sun, 22 Apr 2012 02:32:16 -0700 Asaf Karagila @markvs: When I have office hours and students come and ask for my help solving homework questions, I show them how to solve one of the questions and we review the solution. Do you object to open hours? Do you object to answering questions in class or exercise lessons?

Writing a complete and detailed solution to one problem with explanation on how the method works can have much better results. I agree that students need to learn how to tackle problems on their own, however you must have some basic tools in order to tackle problems. Sadly, not all teachers are that great and some students really fail to learn from their teachers. In that aspect I find that helping other students - even in their homework - can be very useful for their development.

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Michael Greinecker comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18936) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18936#Comment_18936 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18936#Comment_18936 Sun, 22 Apr 2012 02:13:50 -0700 Michael Greinecker Angelo comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18935) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18935#Comment_18935 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18935#Comment_18935 Sun, 22 Apr 2012 01:39:19 -0700 Angelo markvs comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18934) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18934#Comment_18934 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18934#Comment_18934 Sun, 22 Apr 2012 01:37:00 -0700 markvs Michael Greinecker comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18933) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18933#Comment_18933 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18933#Comment_18933 Sun, 22 Apr 2012 01:09:42 -0700 Michael Greinecker markvs comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18932) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18932#Comment_18932 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18932#Comment_18932 Sun, 22 Apr 2012 00:57:39 -0700 markvs Asaf Karagila comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18931) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18931#Comment_18931 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18931#Comment_18931 Sun, 22 Apr 2012 00:49:39 -0700 Asaf Karagila @markvs: I can assure you that there is a lot of junk on MSE. I sometimes feel a bit bad that the dominating tag is [homework], alas it is not all bad. There are many interesting questions and many wonderful answers as well.

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markvs comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18930) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18930#Comment_18930 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18930#Comment_18930 Sat, 21 Apr 2012 23:53:26 -0700 markvs Will Jagy comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18929) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18929#Comment_18929 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18929#Comment_18929 Sat, 21 Apr 2012 22:26:52 -0700 Will Jagy Angelo comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18928) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18928#Comment_18928 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18928#Comment_18928 Sat, 21 Apr 2012 21:15:49 -0700 Angelo markvs comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18927) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18927#Comment_18927 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18927#Comment_18927 Sat, 21 Apr 2012 20:56:33 -0700 markvs Bill Johnson comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18926) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18926#Comment_18926 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18926#Comment_18926 Sat, 21 Apr 2012 15:50:52 -0700 Bill Johnson Thanks, Will. Gerry's request is very reasonable and well worth repeating.

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Will Jagy comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18925) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18925#Comment_18925 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18925#Comment_18925 Sat, 21 Apr 2012 14:11:06 -0700 Will Jagy
Found it, Gerry Myerson did make one request along your lines,
http://tea.mathoverflow.net/discussion/1125/sending-people-to-math-stack-exchange ]]>
Asaf Karagila comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18924) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18924#Comment_18924 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18924#Comment_18924 Sat, 21 Apr 2012 13:16:05 -0700 Asaf Karagila The ones I would suggest that are those that I doubt take any math courses to begin with...

How do you drop an empty set?

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Bill Johnson comments on "If we were more responsible....." (18923) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18923#Comment_18923 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/1348/if-we-were-more-responsible/?Focus=18923#Comment_18923 Sat, 21 Apr 2012 13:02:59 -0700 Bill Johnson instead of referring certain OPs to math.stackexchange we would suggest that they drop their math courses for PE courses.

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