tea.mathoverflow.net - Discussion Feed (Potentially offensive usernames?)

Will Jagy comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10303)

Will Jagy — Sun, 07 Nov 2010 08:29:27 -0800

Beren, I noticed that the pass above Minas Morgul is called Cirith Ungol.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirith_Ungol

Will Jagy comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10302)

Will Jagy — Sun, 07 Nov 2010 08:26:56 -0800

Hi Harald, yes, I had made the accusation entirely explicit in earlier posts here and on MO, that the user in question spoke (wrote) without caring whether he spoke the truth, that being my main impression of Frankfurt's description of bullshit. No effect, but things have calmed down. And really, in that user's mind those formulas and computer graphs are the truth. So I suppose all I accomplished was to affirm for everybody else that proofs are required, and at least I am less worked up about it than I was. Just need time.

first
http://tea.mathoverflow.net/discussion/714/my-question-was-closed-why/#Item_21

later
http://tea.mathoverflow.net/discussion/729/why-people-vote-to-close-questions-outside-of-their-field/#Item_20

Harald Hanche-Olsen comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10301)

Harald Hanche-Olsen — Sun, 07 Nov 2010 07:47:27 -0800

@Will: It did inded not go over well in that thread, but not because the word alluded to (not even used!) is a swearword – rather because of the implied accusation.

Shevek comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10296)

Shevek — Sun, 07 Nov 2010 01:27:44 -0700

With their whips of flame they smote asunder the webs of Ungoliant, and she quailed, and turned to fight, belching black vapours to cover her; and fleeing from the north she went down into Beleriand, and dwelt beneath Ered Gorgoroth, in that dark valley that was after called Nan Dungortheb, the Valley of Dreadful Death, because of the horror she bred there. For other foul creatures of spider form had dwelt there since the days of the delving of Angband, and she mated with them, and devoured them; and even after Ungoliant herself departed, and went whither she would into the forgotten south of the world, her offspring abode there and wove their hideous webs. Of the fate of Ungoliant, no tale tells. Yet some have said that she ended long ago, when in her uttermost famine she devoured herself at last.

Gerry Myerson comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10295)

Gerry Myerson — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 22:06:00 -0700

Harald, http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=BS

There's an old joke about academic degrees commonly given in the sciences: we all know what B. S. means; M. S. means "More of the Same," and Ph. D. means "Piled High and Deep."

My apologies for bringing down the tone.

Will Jagy comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10277)

Will Jagy — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 15:18:44 -0700

Well, it did not go over that well in this thread:
http://tea.mathoverflow.net/discussion/742/why-my-answer-to-this-question-was-deleted/#Item_30
I gave a copy to my father, but I think the Alzheimer's had at that point progressed past the stage where he could read.

Harald Hanche-Olsen comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10276)

Harald Hanche-Olsen — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 15:11:34 -0700

Now I share Harry's puzzlement: Surely, B.S. is not short for any swear word that I can think of. Unless you consider the title of this great little book (by another Harry to boot) swearing?

Harry Gindi comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10273)

Harry Gindi — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 14:21:53 -0700

Thank you, dear sir.

Will Jagy comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10272)

Will Jagy — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 14:11:33 -0700

Harry, we can see you are in pain.

"and the first and last together are short for a swear word."

Will Jagy comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10271)

Will Jagy — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 14:08:21 -0700

I liked the bit in Children of Hurin, captive Hurin to Morgoth

But Hurin said: `You speak in vain. For you cannot see them from afar: not while you keep this shape, and desire still to be a King visible on earth.' Similar to Sauron fleeing the wreck of Numenor in spirit form, and never after being able to assume a shape pleasing to Men or Elves.

Somehow I got out of Lays that at one point Morgoth was rhymed with loath, same as American oath, both, growth. I liked the idea, but I may have just mixed them in my mind, I can't find it again. It helps to stretch out the second syllable a little. The 2010 World Cup was announced for ESPN by Martin Tyler and Efan Ekoku. When Ekoku said Martin, it was natural, the letter t in the middle was pronounced and there were two syllables. When John Harkes said Martin he really had to struggle, usually he said it the way I do, Mar'n, with what I believe is called a glottal stop.

Harry Gindi comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10269)

Harry Gindi — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 13:54:50 -0700

Can't. figure. out. what. swear word. JS. is. short for...

Shevek comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10268)

Shevek — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 13:50:58 -0700

I wasn't aware that there was a second edition of The Silmarillion. I'll have to check it out; I wonder how much it was changed. I always really liked the Beren and Luthien story, but then again, I'm probably pretty seriously biased. Pretty interesting that Andrew lived on the same street as Tolkien. Let's all just hope that they do a good job of the hobbit movie.

Andrew Stacey comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10265)

Andrew Stacey — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 13:26:13 -0700

I promise that I'll invite you all to my eleventy-first birthday party.

While I'm at it, I may as well mention the fact that the street where I grew up is in wikipedia for a not-completely-unrelated reason.

(And having struggled through the Lays of Beleriand, I wasn't expecting to get much from the most recent Tolkien publication, but was pleasantly surprised.)

Will Jagy comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10262)

Will Jagy — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 12:43:54 -0700

Andrew, let us know when you reach eleventy-one.

Will Jagy comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10261)

Will Jagy — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 12:38:00 -0700

Beren. Along with a second edition of The Silmarillion and the recent The Children of Hurin, there is a separate The Lays of Beleriand, 1985 and paperback 1993, Christopher Tolkien of course. This one has by far the most detail on Beren and Luthien Tinuviel.

Andrew Stacey comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10260)

Andrew Stacey — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 12:32:16 -0700

And to think I used to be proud of sharing a birthday with the Bagginses ... (though when I grew up I was more vocal about sharing a birthday with a famous physicist than two famous hobbits; now that I've grown down again, I think it's more fun to be a hobbit than a physicist.)

Shevek comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10259)

Shevek — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 12:17:42 -0700

B.J.S.
and no my name is not Bilbo! i was the guy who took a silmaril from morgoth's crown. a pretty awesome guy. i'm not nearly as cool as him.

Will Jagy comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10258)

Will Jagy — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 11:59:39 -0700

Shevek, are you willing to give your initials, or at least say which Tolkien character is involved? I have no idea who you are, but maybe I have just not explored all that the MO software allows me.

Harry Gindi comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10255)

Harry Gindi — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 10:47:31 -0700

BJA?

Bilbo James Atkins?

Shevek comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10254)

Shevek — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 10:32:47 -0700

As a child kids found my initials amusing. The first and middle together are short for a sexual act and the first and last together are short for a swear word.

(and I was named after a Tolkien character as well...)

Scott Morrison comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10245)

Scott Morrison — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 03:24:55 -0700

The user has since added a working email address to their account information, and I've emailed him telling him what's happened, and about this thread.

Gerry Myerson comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10227)

Gerry Myerson — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 14:49:03 -0700

"I changed the name to k3 and left a note." Scott, perhaps a link to the current discussion would have been helpful.

Will Jagy comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10216)

Will Jagy — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 12:06:13 -0700

I looked at that but left it alone, I think the three votes happened at or before Harry's initial comment that it was trivial, and before Brian's comment that it was subtle. I could not tell either way.

Anton Geraschenko comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10214)

Anton Geraschenko — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 12:02:44 -0700

Possibly off topic: why does the question have three votes to close? Were those purely because of the username?

Will Jagy comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10212)

Will Jagy — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 11:26:24 -0700

This really is off topic. Kevin, the only word anywhere pronounced the same as my last name is a Korean game sometimes romanized as Jaegi, similar to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacky_Sack

First page of:
http://macscouter.com/CubScouts/PowWow99/Mar2_99.pdf

Will Jagy comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10210)

Will Jagy — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 11:05:58 -0700

Not entirely off topic, I quite enjoy the Tolkien books, and my friend Dmitry has a friend on Facebook, originally from Kazahkstan, whose name is Nazgul'. Go figure.

deane.yang comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10209)

deane.yang — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 10:42:14 -0700

I'm with Cam on this. I think we overreacted. If the name actually spelled out a word or name that we find offensive, I would concede the point. But an abbreviation like this for me falls far short. But I do like the name "k3". That was a good replacement.

Kevin Lin comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10208)

Kevin Lin — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 10:38:26 -0700

Possible explanation:

The Korean "ㅋㅋㅋ" is romanized as "kekeke" or sometimes just as "kkk".

"ㅋㅋㅋ" denotes laughter, something like "hehehe".

dan petersen comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10207)

dan petersen — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 10:38:25 -0700

"KKK" could also be a reference to Kesko, a big chain of supermarkets in Finland! http://www.google.com/images?q=kkk+finland

Probably the user had no clue about what the connotations are in the US.

Cam McLeman comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10204)

Cam McLeman — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 09:28:13 -0700

I see I'm clearly outvoted here, but for the record, I can't help but feel that we've just contributed, in our own admittedly rather insignificant way, to empowering a hate group by continuing to cede to them complete control over one of the scant 17,576 three-letter acronyms that could be better put to use elsewhere.

Scott Carnahan comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10203)

Scott Carnahan — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 07:50:01 -0700

I changed the name to k3 and left a note.

David Speyer comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10201)

David Speyer — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 07:29:13 -0700

Seems like a reasonable solution.

Scott Morrison comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10198)

Scott Morrison — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 07:10:33 -0700

Hmm... I think it wouldn't be a problem. If he has a login cookie, I'm sure it refers just to the username. He's not registered, so OpenID is irrelevant.

I haven't spent much time as an unregistered user... It's too late tonight (I'm in Kyoto!) for me to go testing things on faketestsite.com, so for now I'll leave it be.

Harald Hanche-Olsen comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10197)

Harald Hanche-Olsen — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 07:08:27 -0700

@Scott: How will he be able to log in, if you change his username like that?

Scott Morrison comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10196)

Scott Morrison — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 07:08:09 -0700

(And to clarify: when I saw the flag for moderator attention, the username was kkk, and I'm assuming that this was always the case.)

Harald Hanche-Olsen comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10195)

Harald Hanche-Olsen — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 07:07:46 -0700

@David: From the very first post in this thread, I'd say the answer is no.

I think it may well be that, assuming the user is young and not American, that it has not even occured to the user what those three letters mean to the rest of us, given that the KKK hasn't been a big news item for the past several decades (I think?). Also, regarding names being offensive in some parts of the world and not in others, many years ago I met an Iranian woman whose first name was Nazi. It took some getting used to. Finally, shall we refer to Monty Python in The Life of Brian, and Biggus D…?

Scott Morrison comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10194)

Scott Morrison — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 07:07:19 -0700

No, he gave a bogus email address. How about I change the username, and leave a comment on his one and only question asking him to contact the moderators, or this thread, if he has an objection?

David Speyer comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10191)

David Speyer — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 06:56:27 -0700

It seems to me that changing someone's username without asking them is kind of rude. Do the mods have an e-mail address for kkk?

Noah Snyder comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10190)

Noah Snyder — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 06:42:15 -0700

Yeah, let's change it. Even if it wasn't an intentional thing on the part of the user it's still inappropriate and makes the site look bad.

jbl comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10189)

jbl — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 06:34:45 -0700

I have no objection in principle to changing user names to avoid offense. Since there is plenty of evidence that this is offensive to at least some reasonable people, I have no objection to not changing it. You could always just lose one of the k-s, which with high probability would preserve the property of "being the author's initials."

Spiro Karigiannis comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10188)

Spiro Karigiannis — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 06:14:16 -0700

That's the original name, as far as I know. It's true that it *might* be the user's initials, but I somehow doubt it. If I had those initials, I wouldn't use them as a username. Why not at least give one of your 3 names, so that it doesn't even have the chance to upset anyone? There are some people who have unfortunately (through no fault of their own) been given names which might be offensive. But these people should be mature enough to know that they can easily avoid any offense.

WillieWong comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10184)

WillieWong — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 05:37:15 -0700

I agree with Cam on this. The current username, kkk, I don't think should be interpreted as offensive. A guy shouldn't be punished for having his initials usurped by an unsavory bunch of people. I mean, for all we know he could be a descendent of Santa Claus.

Can someone clarify if the problem is based on some prior incarnation of this user's name?

Cam McLeman comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10183)

Cam McLeman — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 05:23:45 -0700

I'm in favor of deleting usernames which are clearly blatantly and deliberately offensive -- but I don't think this is a particularly offensive username. It's a perfectly legitimate set of initials and an acronym for a variety of organizations. The elephant in the list is obviously the Ku Klux Klan, but this is a ridiculously small proportion of American society, and I think it's a mistake to let this small sect "own" the acronym kkk.

Edit: Oh, I gather the name was something else prior to my comment. If it was previously more offensive than just "kkk," please disregard.

Spiro Karigiannis comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10182)

Spiro Karigiannis — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 05:20:12 -0700

This name is seriously unacceptable. I'm not easily offended, but this user should know better. It's probably a 13 year old boy who has much to learn in life.

Grétar Amazeen comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10179)

Grétar Amazeen — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 05:09:42 -0700

I agree that this username is offensive and should not be allowed. Obviously if we do start censoring usernames then we will find that what is offensive to some is innocuous to others, so this will inevitably lead to some friction. But i think that in some cases we can all (or at least most) agree.

(obviously this would not be a problem if people just had to use their real names, but I don't want to start another discussion about that in this thread)

Scott Morrison comments on "Potentially offensive usernames?" (10178)

Scott Morrison — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 04:52:13 -0700

A question was just flagged for moderator attention, with the text "I wouldn't mind if somebody replaced this user's name. Seriously.", referring to this user.

I'm actually fairly open to such "enforced renames" but wanted to see what the community thinks. The relevant user did not provide a working email address, so can't be contacted directly. We could comment on their question pointing them to this thread, I guess.