tea.mathoverflow.net - Discussion Feed (The Lamentations of Math Graduates)

WillieWong comments on "The Lamentations of Math Graduates" (13993)

WillieWong — Sun, 03 Apr 2011 11:23:21 -0700

@Qiaochu: if you want to chat, feel free to drop by sometime when you are around CMS. (Though it'd be prudent of you to send me an e-mail first.)

Qiaochu Yuan comments on "The Lamentations of Math Graduates" (13992)

Qiaochu Yuan — Sun, 03 Apr 2011 11:17:12 -0700

Thanks for the responses, everyone! For the time being it seems most prudent for me to have this discussion off-line.

thierryzell comments on "The Lamentations of Math Graduates" (13981)

thierryzell — Sun, 03 Apr 2011 07:25:19 -0700

@Quiaochu: My reaction is roughly the same as David. The question of how many math graduate students the system can accommodate is a good one, but whatever the answer is, you should definitely be one of them. I know I don't have any suggestion to put forward, but hosting the discussion on a personal blog does not strike me as "neutral ground" enough to have the best possible discussion.

As an aside, I think what graduate schools should worry about the most is training their students into the job opportunities that do exist for them. If they think their only duty is to teach math, they will quickly get blindsided by the schools that have understood this. I've been interviewing a lot of young PhD candidates, and I can see some schools have been very aggressive in giving them useful skills for the job market.

David Speyer comments on "The Lamentations of Math Graduates" (13885)

David Speyer — Thu, 31 Mar 2011 13:01:43 -0700

Qiaochu, I'd be perfectly glad to use your blog for a discussion site, and I'd link the post from sbseminar.

I would point out that (based on the little I know of you) your odds of success in research are probably very high; comparable to the top 30 or so students per year. (Very crude estimate, don't take the number too seriously.) So posting the discussion on your blog will lead people to frame their thoughts in terms of your situation, which is not typical even among those undergraduates considering math grad school. Whether this is a good or a bad thing, I leave up to you.

Ryan Budney comments on "The Lamentations of Math Graduates" (13884)

Ryan Budney — Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:57:58 -0700

@Qiaochu: probably the best place to start this discussion is with people who are in a similar situation as yourself. Other undergrads in your program would be a great place to start, and I'd definately start the conversation off-line. Grad students tend to dwell a fair bit on these questions, as well.

Qiaochu Yuan comments on "The Lamentations of Math Graduates" (13883)

Qiaochu Yuan — Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:06:30 -0700

I think this is an important discussion to have, and much too important to have on MathOverflow.

Serious question: where should we have it? I would like to start a discussion on my blog about this issue, as it is somewhat relevant to a decision I will have to make soon. Would it be inappropriate to ask on this meta thread for comments?

Pete L. Clark comments on "The Lamentations of Math Graduates" (13881)

Pete L. Clark — Thu, 31 Mar 2011 07:37:11 -0700

@Ben: thumbs up to that. And to everyone: it seems that this non-question question may have been directly inspired by a less than optimally measured comment I made on an earlier answer of Najdorf. To which I say: mea culpa.

Ben Webster comments on "The Lamentations of Math Graduates" (13880)

Ben Webster — Thu, 31 Mar 2011 00:15:55 -0700

I've deleted the post.

Andrew Stacey comments on "The Lamentations of Math Graduates" (13879)

Andrew Stacey — Thu, 31 Mar 2011 00:00:30 -0700

I completely agree with what Ben just wrote. Some things are too important to debate on MO. The underlying stuff here may be some of that (though the original poster seems quite belligerent so I'm not sure I would want to debate it with him/her). Since "delete" doesn't mean "exterminate" (I'd rather meet a cyberman than a dalek), I vote for deletion straight away. The link in the first post will take anyone with enough reputation and the original poster to the question to get the source, should anyone want to so there is no need to leave it around for that reason.

Ben Webster comments on "The Lamentations of Math Graduates" (13878)

Ben Webster — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 21:40:27 -0700

While it seems most of the people here agree with me, let me explain my impulse to delete in more detail: like many other people, I think this is an important discussion to have, and much too important to have on MathOverflow. What sort of useful discussion is going to happen in a huge list of answers, which will just repeat each other and move around?

Furthermore, relatively cogent material which is not really right for the MathOverflow model is a much more dangerous thing than a boatload of trolls. Everyone will recognize trolling for what it is, and get behind removing it, whereas interesting blocks of content which are not mathematical questions introduce a real danger of the site drifting. That's where my impulse to delete comes from (not my urge to Repress the Dissenters).

Alex Bartel comments on "The Lamentations of Math Graduates" (13877)

Alex Bartel — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 21:38:30 -0700

That "question" has already turned into a debate in the comments, so precisely what we don't want MO posts to be. I also think that it should be deleted. Since the poster clearly misunderstood the mission of MO (not a counselling service), I don't see much point in waiting for several days until he comes here. In particular, I can't imagine what type of argument would change my mind about this question.

thierryzell comments on "The Lamentations of Math Graduates" (13875)

thierryzell — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 20:54:19 -0700

Deletion after a suitable mourning period. The lack of question makes it entirely unsuitable for MO.

Yemon Choi comments on "The Lamentations of Math Graduates" (13874)

Yemon Choi — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 20:42:08 -0700

If Najdorf does not want to come here to discuss why the question was closed, could one of the moderators contact him or her privately?

Update: it seems, from comments on that thread, that Najdorf would like the post to remain up for a few days, and will join the thread here at some point. So I think we can afford to leave the post where it is for the moment.

Yemon Choi comments on "The Lamentations of Math Graduates" (13873)

Yemon Choi — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 20:37:02 -0700

I think that eventually it should be deleted, but perhaps not too much is lost by waiting, so as to reduce any perception that The Elitists Are Repressing The Dissenters or some such nonsense.

I obviously think the question should be closed, and am disheartened to see it has a vote to reopen (at time of writing). For a start, there is no question there.

Zev Chonoles comments on "The Lamentations of Math Graduates" (13872)

Zev Chonoles — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 20:35:25 -0700

I don't recall what the previous decision was, but all I know is that in the case of this particular post, I would be pro-deletion. I agree with Ben - this is even further from the MO domain than people asking for help with their calculus homework. We should give Najdorf the chance to copy and paste his text so he can post it elsewhere, then delete it.

Mariano comments on "The Lamentations of Math Graduates" (13871)

Mariano — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 20:30:23 -0700

I too think it should be deleted. At the very most, it would serve as an example of what discussion-y is...

Ryan Budney comments on "The Lamentations of Math Graduates" (13870)

Ryan Budney — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 20:21:11 -0700

I think we've had this kind of discussion before but I forget what the consensus was -- is there a reason not to delete such questions?

I had the impression that "non valued" closed questions were deleted after some amount of time.

For what it's worth, I agree there's no value keeping such closed threads around. MO isn't a whining repository.

Ben Webster comments on "The Lamentations of Math Graduates" (13868)

Ben Webster — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 20:00:06 -0700

This post might as well have its own meta thread. I'm honestly tempted to delete it; there's not even a pretense of containing a question, just a lot of stuff about what a terrible idea grad school is.