tea.mathoverflow.net - Discussion Feed (Meanings of reasons to close?) Sun, 04 Nov 2018 23:23:45 -0800 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.1.9 & Feed Publisher Will Jagy comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10414) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10414#Comment_10414 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10414#Comment_10414 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 13:52:59 -0800 Will Jagy
See a penny, pick it up,

All day long you'll have good lup.

but he deleted the question for lack of responses. ]]>
Will Jagy comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10413) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10413#Comment_10413 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10413#Comment_10413 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 13:41:51 -0800 Will Jagy
I note there is a parallel thread, quite testy, on one fellow upset by downvotes. If it would do any good, I would write that it is in the software, nothing on Meta will change downvotes, please calm down. It would not help. ]]>
Harry Gindi comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10412) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10412#Comment_10412 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10412#Comment_10412 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 13:32:35 -0800 Harry Gindi

I am at this point gunshy.

The only way to overcome your fears is to shoot a someone with (verbal) bullets.

Regarding posting that message, I would do it myself, but I would be denounced and derided for doing it, given my reputation, which often seems to precede me.

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Will Jagy comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10411) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10411#Comment_10411 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10411#Comment_10411 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 13:30:18 -0800 Will Jagy Andrew Stacey comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10410) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10410#Comment_10410 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10410#Comment_10410 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 13:21:30 -0800 Andrew Stacey

I am still interested in people's interpretations of what these things mean,

Which is one reason why meta exists ...

I am slightly bothered by the rigidity of this scheme,

I think we probably all are, but are perhaps a bit more resigned to the current state of affairs (having been aware of it for a bit longer than you).

but your advice (leave comments when closing) seems to be the right response,

I think it originates with Anton, but he'll be pleased to learn that I've so internalised his sage advice that I'm now claiming it as my own.

short of trying to get more control over the machinery.

A-ha! The Revolution! If you want to join that, you need to sign up to the secret meta site.

And suddenly the words of Emily Litella spring to mind...

Being a Brit, I had to look that one up. Looking at the range of possibilities on Wikipedia, I'm not sure how to take that one. Should I see myself as Chevy Chase or as Jane Curtin in this scene?

(In case it's not clear to anyone else, I'm laffin')

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Will Jagy comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10409) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10409#Comment_10409 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10409#Comment_10409 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 13:14:59 -0800 Will Jagy Harry Gindi comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10408) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10408#Comment_10408 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10408#Comment_10408 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 13:12:40 -0800 Harry Gindi

"I have looked at your profile and your previous questions or answers, I'm voting to close because this question is pretty bad and you are a moron."

I (double dog) dare you to write this on ecologicyborg's next post.

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HJRW comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10402) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10402#Comment_10402 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10402#Comment_10402 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 13:07:28 -0800 HJRW Will, excellent, now I have a meaning for 'Too localized' to add to my dictionary.

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Todd Trimble comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10401) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10401#Comment_10401 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10401#Comment_10401 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 13:06:58 -0800 Todd Trimble
I am still interested in people's interpretations of what these things mean, but I feel much less bothered now not having consensus. I *am* slightly bothered by the rigidity of this scheme, but your advice (leave comments when closing) seems to be the right response, short of trying to get more control over the machinery.

And suddenly the words of Emily Litella spring to mind... ]]>
Harry Gindi comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10400) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10400#Comment_10400 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10400#Comment_10400 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 13:06:53 -0800 Harry Gindi

I use "not a real question" whenever someone asks a question about the complex numbers.

I vote to close as too localized when people ask textbook questions about localization.

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Will Jagy comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10396) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10396#Comment_10396 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10396#Comment_10396 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 13:02:41 -0800 Will Jagy Gerry Myerson comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10388) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10388#Comment_10388 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10388#Comment_10388 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 12:43:35 -0800 Gerry Myerson .
.
.
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JUST KIDDING! ]]>
Andrew Stacey comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10383) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10383#Comment_10383 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10383#Comment_10383 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 12:18:01 -0800 Andrew Stacey Todd, if you already know this then I apologise for repeating it. When deciding on what these things mean, it's important to remember that we can't modify the list in any way. And when voting to close, one has to pick from the list as presented. That's one reason why we're encouraged to leave a comment as to why we think a question should be closed. So when you ask, "what the heck do we mean when [we] write these things?", the short answer is: "We didn't write them.".

I usually pick "too localised" as meaning, "I can't imagine why anyone would be interested in the answer to this question.". But often if I'm not the first to vote-to-close then I'll just capitulate and go with the current majority (which is shown to you when you vote-to-close). Some, such as those that Andy listed above, have very clear meaning for MO, but others really only make sense on StackOverflow.

So the Ideal Solution is to get more control over the machinery - though I've not seen any evidence that the SX2.0 sites can change their messages - and the Realistic Solution is to encourage people to leave comments when closing. After all, how many people are going to look at the FAQ to find out what the real meaning of the message is? And how many of those with the power to vote-to-close are going to remember to look at the FAQ to find out which coded message is actually the one they want to leave?

But perhaps the FAQ could emphasise the fact that this is something we have no control over, and that closing is not necessarily "for ever", and that meta here exists so that those who feel that a question was wrongly closed can argue for its reopening.

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HJRW comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10382) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10382#Comment_10382 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10382#Comment_10382 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 12:11:02 -0800 HJRW That's why I'm suggesting that a 'dictionary' between the terms we are forced to use and the notions we want to use would be useful. As Andy suggests, because there will always be difficulties in interpretation, this dictionary should be short.

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Todd Trimble comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10380) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10380#Comment_10380 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10380#Comment_10380 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 12:02:13 -0800 Todd Trimble Cam McLeman comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10370) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10370#Comment_10370 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10370#Comment_10370 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 10:38:16 -0800 Cam McLeman @Will: Hm? I thought this thread was specifically about the reasons behind the votes to close...

Also, new life goal -- no landing on Will's idiot list. :)

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HJRW comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10369) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10369#Comment_10369 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10369#Comment_10369 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 10:38:14 -0800 HJRW It seems like the thing to do might be to list the actual reasons we want to close things, and then try to make them match up with the available reasons we have. Actual reasons for me include:

  • Spam.
  • Exact duplicate.
  • Not 'MO-level': would be more suitable on another site.
  • Incomprehensible: could be an MO question with some editing.

The first two are fine. Perhaps the last two correspond to 'Off topic'' and 'Not a real question', respectively?

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Harry Gindi comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10366) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10366#Comment_10366 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10366#Comment_10366 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 10:19:59 -0800 Harry Gindi I also like using "not a real question" for questions that are really really really easy.

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Will Jagy comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10361) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10361#Comment_10361 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10361#Comment_10361 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 10:10:12 -0800 Will Jagy Cam McLeman comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10359) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10359#Comment_10359 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10359#Comment_10359 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 10:07:49 -0800 Cam McLeman Like the one that Scott eluded to in the post I referenced.

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nng comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10358) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10358#Comment_10358 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10358#Comment_10358 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 10:07:48 -0800 nng
Like what ? ]]>
nng comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10357) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10357#Comment_10357 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10357#Comment_10357 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 10:06:05 -0800 nng
Ronnie Brown, "Promoting Mathematics"

www.bangor.ac.uk/~mas010/promotingmaths.html ]]>
Cam McLeman comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10353) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10353#Comment_10353 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10353#Comment_10353 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 10:00:05 -0800 Cam McLeman My working standards:

My "not a real question" point of view is roughly the same as Will's.

Off-topic is for questions, good or bad, better suited at other theory sites (theoretical CS in particular).

Too localized is too easy, or those like Scott Morisson in the "too localized" thread -- questions that really are just too specific to be of interest to even a specialized audience.

I would be happy to change any of these in favor of standardization among moderators.

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Todd Trimble comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10351) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10351#Comment_10351 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10351#Comment_10351 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 09:57:27 -0800 Todd Trimble WillieWong comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10350) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10350#Comment_10350 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10350#Comment_10350 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 09:54:22 -0800 WillieWong +1 Will Jagy: there is a clear-cut case when "Not a real question" applies. Even if the standards for "real" were debatable, the standards for "is there a question in what you wrote" is not.

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Will Jagy comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10346) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10346#Comment_10346 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10346#Comment_10346 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 09:47:19 -0800 Will Jagy Harry Gindi comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10336) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10336#Comment_10336 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10336#Comment_10336 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 08:48:49 -0800 Harry Gindi @Andy:

The reason "Not a real question" has its place, especially when people like you-know-who (don't want to invoke his name and suffer his presence) start questions that are just rants.

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Andy Putman comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10335) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10335#Comment_10335 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10335#Comment_10335 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 08:16:09 -0800 Andy Putman
1. Exact duplicate (obvious meaning)
2. Spam (obvious meaning)
3. Off-topic (everything else) ]]>
Todd Trimble comments on "Meanings of reasons to close?" (10334) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10334#Comment_10334 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/753/meanings-of-reasons-to-close/?Focus=10334#Comment_10334 Mon, 08 Nov 2010 08:02:49 -0800 Todd Trimble
To get the ball rolling, a number of meanings of "too localized" were tossed around in the discussion on re-opening the Aut(G) = C_3, G = ? question. At the moment we don't seem to be anywhere near consensus. ]]>