tea.mathoverflow.net - Discussion Feed (I don't appreciate being made the dancing bear in this forum.)

Yemon Choi comments on "I don't appreciate being made the dancing bear in this forum." (7737)

Yemon Choi — Wed, 28 Jul 2010 15:51:45 -0700

Since commenting at length (especially while in the midst of Shiraz-aided decompression in YYZ) would probably be counterproductive, I would just like to add my support to jbl's 1st post on this thread.

AndrewL comments on "I don't appreciate being made the dancing bear in this forum." (7668)

AndrewL — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:29:32 -0700

Scott asked me to post my response at the forum to being suspended in defense of his actions. I'm happy to do it-an innocent man shouldn't be afraid to take the stand.I seriously doubt any of you would have reacted in any more pleasant manner.

Andrew Locascio

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suspended, 2 days
2 messages
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Scott Morrison Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 2:30 PM
To: Andrew Locascio
Cc: moderators
If I have to pick a particular inappropriate moment during
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/33265/how-do-we-know-that-fermat-wrote-his-famous-note-in-1637:

@Victor Sigh,Can't win. – Andrew L 13 hours ago

but also your (partially deleted) interaction with Wadim.

sincerely,
Scott

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Andrew Locascio Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 4:24 PM
To: Scott Morrison
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!? I DELETED THE COMMENT!!! Now you're just looking for excuses to do this. I wish you'd just say so.
[Quoted text hidden]

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Wadim Zudilin comments on "I don't appreciate being made the dancing bear in this forum." (7662)

Wadim Zudilin — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 17:04:35 -0700

@Andrew: just to explain my point. Saying that X is a great mathematician and you happen to be his student sounds like pulling others down. Especially when this remark has nothing to do with the discussion. I believe you didn't really mean this but MO is public, so please be a little bit softer in your opinions.

Andy Putman comments on "I don't appreciate being made the dancing bear in this forum." (7660)

Andy Putman — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:34:52 -0700

@Harry : I don't think that being an ass is necessary here.

@Andrew L : I want to give you a bit of professional advice. Let me preface this by saying that I've read your blog and many of your posts on MO and have quite a bit of sympathy for what you've gone through. My father died of brain cancer when I was in grad school, so I certainly know how difficult it can be to deal with health/family troubles while trying to finish one's education. I suspect that most people here also are sympathetic to your plight and don't wish you any personal ill-will.

With that said, I want to make a bunch of comments that relate to your behavior here on MO but are ultimately broader (I'll assume, though this might not be a correct assumption, that your behavior on MO is similar to your behavior in other places).

1. You take criticism very badly and personally. This is going to cause you a world of trouble as you navigate academia. In grad school, you will have a thesis advisor who will be professionally obligated to heavily criticize your ideas and your writing. You will also have to deal with referees, who will be blunt and unsparing and often unfair. These are all facts of life which none of us can change (and all of us have to deal with). If you react badly to these criticisms, you will sabotage your professional development. Even if you think people are being unfair, the best response is to take the high road and say "Thanks for the advice!". Complaining will get you nowhere.

2. You have a habit of mentioning in great detail your relationships with various mathematicians. This often comes across as name-dropping, and people will react badly to it. Of course, it's ok to give proper attribution to things people tell you. For example, it would be fine to say "I asked Melvyn Nathanson about this, and he said X". It is bad form, however, to say "I should ask Melvyn Nathanson, a great mathematician and my teacher and friend, about this" (I don't remember your exact wording, but it was at least vaguely of this form). It adds no factual information to the discussion -- all it tells people is that you want to trumpet your relationship with someone.

3. I would try to limit your expressed strong opinions to things about which you have a great deal of knowledge. For instance, it comes off as a bit weird and arrogant for someone who has not studied advanced algebraic geometry to have loud opinions about the best texts on the subject.

jbl comments on "I don't appreciate being made the dancing bear in this forum." (7658)

jbl — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:22:35 -0700

Harry, you seem really intent on making it impossible to say that everyone here is acting in good-faith. Please stop.

Harry Gindi comments on "I don't appreciate being made the dancing bear in this forum." (7652)

Harry Gindi — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:50:51 -0700

@Andrew L: You realize that Angelo is Angelo Vistoli, right? I'm pretty sure that there's very little he can do on MO to harm his good name, even if he was trying to.

Anyway, this whole dancing bear thing is unfortunate news. i already had t-shirts made up for the attraction: "See a dancing bear!" starring Andrew L!

Kevin Lin comments on "I don't appreciate being made the dancing bear in this forum." (7650)

Kevin Lin — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:42:09 -0700

Perhaps your opinions of your teacher are not offensive, but they are definitely off-topic.

David Zureick-Brown comments on "I don't appreciate being made the dancing bear in this forum." (7649)

David Zureick-Brown — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:41:30 -0700

@Andrew L

I apologize, "spam" was a harsh exaggeration.

Asking you privately to change your behavior has been largely ineffective. Why did you think your answer/comment answered Angelo's question?

Qiaochu Yuan comments on "I don't appreciate being made the dancing bear in this forum." (7648)

Qiaochu Yuan — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:39:15 -0700

@Andrew: This is an unfortunate situation. I think Scott overreacted a little, but I also hope you can see that your heated responses to these incidents make it very hard to be on your side, especially with the constant accusations you keep throwing our way.

Edit: I'd also like to say something about this accusation of pettiness. I gather this is supposed to mean that you think Scott Morrison has a grudge against you which causes him to treat you in a way you don't deserve, e.g. you believe that if a different user behaved in a similar manner, Scott would be lighter on him. I do not think this is the case. It is precisely your personal behavior which is in question here, precisely because - by your own admission - you don't believe in separating the personal from the professional when discussing mathematics. So your personal behavior affects the environment of MO, and that is what Scott has to respond to.

AndrewL comments on "I don't appreciate being made the dancing bear in this forum." (7647)

AndrewL — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:33:19 -0700

@jbl Alright.And thanks for your support,I really appreciate it.

@David Brown Even if I agreed with your assessment of my post as "spam",I think asking me to delete my comments and/or responses would have more then sufficed. I already deleted one comment over protest with no further defiance. I would have gladly done so.
But that just lends further support to my evaluation that it's become personal-and petty-in here with me.

jbl comments on "I don't appreciate being made the dancing bear in this forum." (7646)

jbl — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:19:54 -0700

@Andrew, you should stop posting here while upset -- the result is unseemly, and it reinforces the unfortunate dynamic around your interactions with the rest of the community.

@Scott Morrison, I agree with Angelo, Anweshi and Andrew that the suspension seems unnecessary.

David Zureick-Brown comments on "I don't appreciate being made the dancing bear in this forum." (7645)

David Zureick-Brown — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:18:57 -0700

@Andrew L

Andy was completely professional (and spot on) with his comment. Your such off topic answers/comments are, as far as I am concerned, spam, and Scott made it clear in his email that such unprofessional behavior would result in suspension.

AndrewL comments on "I don't appreciate being made the dancing bear in this forum." (7644)

AndrewL — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:53:50 -0700

Scott Morrison just booted me off again for 2 days. Before I even had a chance to respond to my previous long meta post. Apparently the reasons were that 1) Waldim Zudilin took offense to a compliment I paid my teacher Melvyn Nathason as one of today's"preeminent number theorists" and 2) My commentary on the notes supposedly left by Fermat on his famous theorum was off-topic. Meanwhile,such professional and nonpersonal comments such as these were left:

@Andrew L : I want to expand my comment in the hope that it will help you. What you posted is "wikipedia level knowledge". There are times when such general comments are helpful, especially if the post is obviously the work of a beginner. However, the current post is not asking for background and asks a very technical question : how do we know the date of Fermat's undated marginal note? The author of the question demonstrates enough knowledge that it is clearly unnecessary (and maybe a little insulting) to post background knowledge that most people who understand the question would know. – Andy Putman 14 hours ago

@Andrew L - the word you are looking for is "theorem". – Gerry 13 hours ago

Nah,it's strictly professional, all this. Sure it is. One comment really gave me pause and reinforced my reaction:

Wow. You guys should really lighten up. – Angelo 4 hours ago

I couldn't agree more,Angelo-but you better be careful before they decide you're not acting appropriately either for not totally agreeing with them and suspend you,too.

And on top of all this,it looks like my lengthy response here-which was pretty civil given my level of anger and frustration-has officially landed me on Scott Morrison's personal shit list.I hope I'm wrong about this,but the quick trigger he booted me off on given this ridiculous incident makes me think so. He's not someone I need as an enemy over something this trivial.

I'm not welcome here. It's clear since the reasons for kicking me off have steadily become more trivial and pointless as time has gone on. There was no good reason to suspend me over this. NONE. This is for someone's entertainment,nothing more.

I'm done. Good luck with this forum. Very well done. You won't be hearing from me again anytime soon.

Sincerely,
Andrew L.