tea.mathoverflow.net - Discussion Feed (Deleted Users' Questions)

Max1 comments on "Deleted Users' Questions" (21338)

Max1 — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 22:57:15 -0800

@Francois G. Dorais:
"Max, if you really believe that your rights have been infringed, please contact a lawyer."
I prefer good sense.
What's you?

Max1 comments on "Deleted Users' Questions" (21337)

Max1 — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 22:43:36 -0800

@DavidRoberts:
"...- you still own the copyright to what you wrote, but I doubt that you have the rights to the presentation of it complete with MathOverflow logo and site design..."

If file exists from creation date(priority date), has been developed, and not allways has "deleted" status. Why not?

"...Copyright doesn't mean you get to dictate if and how the content appears on MO's website..."
I'm not dictator.
These are references on pages, not on website.

"...The only way to make it visible is to make it visible for everyone, and it is within the perogative of the moderators to decline to do that."

I think keywords here: "page" and "site".
"page" may be subset of "site" and may not be, but stored on server.
User's Autor's do not have rights on "site" but have rights on "page".
Why Autor do not have possibility to see his own "pages"?

François G. Dorais comments on "Deleted Users' Questions" (21336)

François G. Dorais — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 22:20:17 -0800

Max, if you really believe that your rights have been infringed, please contact a lawyer.

DavidRoberts comments on "Deleted Users' Questions" (21335)

DavidRoberts — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 21:44:09 -0800

@Max - you still own the copyright to what you wrote, but I doubt that you have the rights to the presentation of it complete with MathOverflow logo and site design. Copyright doesn't mean you get to dictate if and how the content appears on MO's website.

To see the question on the live web as it is currently, you need 10k+ reputation, and this is built into the software, which we cannot change. The only way to make it visible is to make it visible for everyone, and it is within the perogative of the moderators to decline to do that.

Max1 comments on "Deleted Users' Questions" (21334)

Max1 — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 20:30:11 -0800

@Scott Carnahan:
"...MathOverflow will not back you up in a priority fight."

That's why I take the initiative and request for my content to be open access.
repeat: even without public access(MO status:deleted).

"...If you are seeking a website that won't delete your writing, you should go somewhere else. We have made no such promises."

You (server) have made copyright promises:
http://mathoverflow.net/faq#othersedit
"When you post on MathOverflow, you retain the copyright to your words..."
This is responsibility for server.

"If you want answers to specific research-level mathematical questions, you are welcome to ask them here."
Thanks.

Max1 comments on "Deleted Users' Questions" (21333)

Max1 — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 20:01:18 -0800

@Will Jagy :
I do not require change MO status(deleted) of some my content, although I'm disagree.
I only like to see it(all my content)

I think that "open access to User's contents" needed for avoidance of copyrights( and allied rights, namely Autor rights) violation. Seems paradoxically but nevertheless.
And where here Max1?

Scott Carnahan comments on "Deleted Users' Questions" (21332)

Scott Carnahan — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 16:52:32 -0800

Max1, I think you are confused about the purpose of this site.

MathOverflow is not: a timestamping service, an idea archive, Dropbox(tm), a blog, or a patent office. MathOverflow will not back you up in a priority fight.

If you are seeking a website that won't delete your writing, you should go somewhere else. We have made no such promises.

If you want answers to specific research-level mathematical questions, you are welcome to ask them here.

Will Jagy comments on "Deleted Users' Questions" (21329)

Will Jagy — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 13:34:48 -0800

It appears Max1 would be satisfied only if his questions were undeleted, which is not going to happen. Suggest closing this thread.

Max1 comments on "Deleted Users' Questions" (21327)

Max1 — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 09:23:01 -0800

"If the moderators gave you the text, you can create your own
links under some other domain using a different style"

But this is different attribute(priority date) This is impotant. Moreover, User's content may be interested for Users commentig question. User lost these contacts.

"If MathOverflow has
decided to remove your question from public access through its website, your
primary recourse to restore it is to convince MathOverflow how your question
will enhance the site. This is unlikely since it seems MathOverflow has decided
your question does not enhance the site."

I think open access useful for all Users. And a sign of respect they rights.
I think this is enhances the site as progressive web resourse.
I do not think what my content "does not enhance the site"
In any case, one more PageRank is useful for MO Rank

grp comments on "Deleted Users' Questions" (21326)

grp — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 08:23:25 -0800

I think you would benefit from a different idea of how things operate.

When you send things like suggestions or photos to a company for
a contest or publicity campaign, the card and the idea or image you send
become the property of the company. This does not mean you can no
longer send a copy of that idea or image to someone else; it means the card you
sent is no longer yours to command, and the company does what it wants with
the idea or image: you cannot by law compel the company to do something
with it.

When you submit a question, comment, or answer to MathOverflow,
it is understood that you are
giving something (legally, who or what that something is is still being resolved;
let us say that it is Anton for sake of discussion) permission to publish that
question, comment, or answer under certain conditions. One of the conditions
is that the "string of bits" is the property of that something, and that something
can decide not to publish it.

I am not a lawyer, and the above is a suggestion as opposed to legal analysis.
I think it is a good model to use to understand why you will not get your
working links. If the moderators gave you the text, you can create your own
links under some other domain using a different style. If MathOverflow has
decided to remove your question from public access through its website, your
primary recourse to restore it is to convince MathOverflow how your question
will enhance the site. This is unlikely since it seems MathOverflow has decided
your question does not enhance the site.

EDIT: I realize now that your concern is establishing priority. If it becomes
a legal issue, you may get some cooperation from the moderators regarding
timestamps. However, MathOverflow is neither a journal nor a notary service.
ArXiv is a repository, and wil provide some information, but its emphasis is not
on establishing priority. If you need to establish when you created something,
in much of the world the gold standard is to have it notarized, where you pay
someone a fee to witness an association of you, a document, and a time.
Anything less can be easily challenged, especially regarding identity of creator.
I encourage Max not to rely on MathOverflow for such services. END EDIT.

Gerhard "Still Is Not A Lawyer" Paseman, 2013.02.07

Max1 comments on "Deleted Users' Questions" (21324)

Max1 — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 07:51:06 -0800

may be I was unclear. Excuse me.

But page of question(worked URL on MO) and text from textbox wery different things.
MO page(worked URL on MO) is a document with attributions(time of creations and so on),
text is simple text.

"...but it does not require anyone to distribute your work."

I do not require anyone to distribute someone work.
I want to have worked URL's on my content.
This is not a problem for MO, you can view it now. But I'm not, alas.

I respect MO.
I wish Development.
Why not MO simply, friendly gave me my urls(open access to it)?
This remove the issue.

"open access to it" I mean : anyone, who know URL, may view pages.
I do not require change MO status(deleted), although I'm disagree.

François G. Dorais comments on "Deleted Users' Questions" (21323)

François G. Dorais — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 07:10:01 -0800

Max, when you emailed the moderators, we gave you the full text for these questions (which is still accessible to all users with at least 10k points). There are no obligations for us to distribute these to anyone, but you have granted everyone the right to do that under the terms of the CC BY-SA license for your questions. In general, copyright protects you by preventing others to distribute your work without a license to do so, but it does not require anyone to distribute your work.

Max1 comments on "Deleted Users' Questions" (21322)

Max1 — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 05:30:11 -0800

Yes, of course. I'm logged(checked)
I think your access status different from my.

But I want that links works even without login
For everyone wants to view. Free access, may be without(better with) references from MO site pages.

quid comments on "Deleted Users' Questions" (21321)

quid — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 05:09:10 -0800

That is surprising.

Either I misunderstood that owners can still see their own deleted questions (it is definitely true for answers, but might be different for qustions). Perhaps somebody else can confirm or refute this. Or you are not actually logged in on MO (with the right account). Could your try to recheck you are really logged in by clicking on you username at the top of the page and seeing what you get. And then if you are really the Max I mentioned above then copy paste the urls in that browser windows address bar and see if there is still a 404.

In any case, I think at the moment I can not be of further help. Perhaps somebody else will be able to say something.

Max1 comments on "Deleted Users' Questions" (21320)

Max1 — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 04:58:59 -0800

I'm logged in on MO and recive error 404 on these pages.
"...If you want I can copy over the text here."
Thanks. But I want worked links.

quid comments on "Deleted Users' Questions" (21319)

quid — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 04:49:12 -0800

Okay, so you seem not to be Max1 (on main) but Max (number 24786), or to make it easier for others look for Max with a gold badge. The one I guessed, originally.

But I am now very confused what you want as you have the links anyway. So you should have (if you are logged in on MO) access to this anyway. Is there a problem with you accessing these pages. If you want I can copy over the text here.

Max1 comments on "Deleted Users' Questions" (21318)

Max1 — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 04:28:57 -0800

Yes
my request for "right" references are corresponding to:
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/119749/kolmogorov-complexity-and-type-of-string
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/106507/godelization-of-the-statement-forms

quid comments on "Deleted Users' Questions" (21317)

quid — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 04:20:47 -0800

Could you please be more precise what you are looking for.

In particular, is your display name on main Max1, too. There is such a user but last seen in 2011(!)., so this is not evident. Even more so as there are various users Max (plus something).

In addition I take it the question I linked to is not what you were looking for (it was something on Kolmogorov complexity). Could you confirm this.

Max1 comments on "Deleted Users' Questions" (21316)

Max1 — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 02:20:55 -0800

I agree, "deleted" not very appropriate formulation
"removing from public access" is beter.

"...one would need direct access to it, moderator or even more "powerful", to get them..."
I ask this question here after welcome from moderator,
after my request for my urls of "removing from public access" content.

quid comments on "Deleted Users' Questions" (21315)

quid — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 01:56:16 -0800

I am not completely sure I understand you. Some points however:

For questions and answers (not for comments, individually) the owner still has access to the data even if "deleted" (things are not really deleted, they are just not generally displayed anymore, it can be just a bit harder to find). [I believe, though not sure, comments are also preserved in the database itsellf but one would need direct access to it, moderator or even more "powerful", to get them.]
In general content considered as valuable/creative is not deleted even if it is off-topic. In case you have a concern regarding a specific contribution, please, try to be as specific as possible.
Regarding "copyrights" and so on (I am very hesitant to comment on this as these things can be complicated, but): in contributing to MO you license your content under a Creative Commons license (for details follow the link on the main page). This grants "MO" and everybody else certain rights regarding to use/publish/display the content. However, it does not put "MO" under any obligation to (indefinitely) publish/display/preserve this content. At least under no (remotely) legal one.

That being said, and as mentioned above, if you are interested in some deleted content and have difficulty accessing it due to it being deleted, feel free to ask here for help to retrieve this content. Typically you will find somebody willing to help, since even if there is no obligation, of course nobody should loose some content or work they find important just due to it having been delted here.

ps: Here, the question you might be looking for http://mathoverflow.net/questions/119749/

Max1 comments on "Deleted Users' Questions" (21314)

Max1 — Thu, 07 Feb 2013 01:09:46 -0800

Dear Friends.
I want to discuss the Information event:deleting Users contents(removing from public access).
Then User's questions/answers/comments have been deleted(remove from public access)
This is unpleasantly. I understand.

Formally, without direct reference(url) on server(mathoverflow), clients'(Users') copyrights(and allied rights)are questionable.

In such situation(deleted questions/answers/comments), client lost rights on the time of publication(priority date) and file of question.
That can lead to situation when client to be forced "ask someone for permission" (reference on someone ) for developing his own(client's) ideas.
In fact, has been published early(actually removed from public access and no references).

This looks like the copyright(and allied rights) violation from the priority rights side.

For avoidance of it is suffice for client to have server's urls of
all his own content, even without public access.

If User asked question, that cause interest of other Users, in form
of answers or comments(rights of Users that create these), this is hystorical document, useful
Information. I think so.
What do you think?

Thanks.