tea.mathoverflow.net - Discussion Feed (When is the question "what is X?" acceptable?) Sun, 04 Nov 2018 13:38:54 -0800 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.1.9 & Feed Publisher Ilya Nikokoshev comments on "When is the question "what is X?" acceptable?" (289) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=289#Comment_289 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=289#Comment_289 Tue, 10 Nov 2009 12:56:11 -0800 Ilya Nikokoshev My personal thoughts without any pretense they're useful and without any conclusion + a crazy idea.

People upvote both the question and the answer, so this question must is useful -- I quick glance confirms that the answers are useful. Does the one-line question itself add more value then an average voted-10 questions? Perhaps yes.

On the other hand, sure, I also wanted to learn about categorification but I took time and read the Baez text some time ago, long before Math Overflow existed. Most regulars here likely did something similar at some point of their lives as the resources are plentiful.

Does it make sense that a person who doesn't provide any indication that s/he actively thought about the question (there's no indication to the contrary, either, so this should not be interpreted as picking on the particular question) is now directing the discussion about it, and, yes, reaping the reputation benefit? If it does, tomorrow a nontrivial number of people will be posting a list of questions "What is XXX" using the dictionary. Heck, it's not hard to write a bot to do that and the competition in bot writing doesn't seem like a good plan for the site.

It's ironic that initial part of this thread was devoted to discussing essentially one person (me) using as the main example the sl_2(R) question -- that one actually was a continuation of an old conversation, both spoken and email, with David Vogan, where I wanted to learn a bit of "real" representation theory and he should get the credit for answering the "stupid" parts of my question (which were therefore not posted). And no, even though I accepted the answer with the reference to park city/ias proceedings, that answer is useless to me about 300 miles away from any half-decent public math library - writing an overview article would be a much better answer for me. One is welcome to say, of course, that having a smart person who could be doing something else instead wasting time on writing overview articles for me (or someone else, for that matter) would lower the overall society benefit -- I won't argue with this point of view, it may very well be so.

Also, some of my other questions were worse, and given that I know about my conversation problems, including "annoying people who have better things to do rather then explain me obvious things", I plead guilty as charged (sometimes better to try to work it out with the prosecution :) )

This makes me go back to the original question: what is the strategy to apply to what-is questions. The only suggestion I came up with so far is thus: [turn the craziness filtering off] one could write a bot that posts all possible what-is questions using Wikipedia + the dictionary, as well as all open problems. Then if somebody wants to post another one, it can be immediately closed as a duplicate. Meanwhile, there will be nothing preventing people who want an answer to particular what-is question from upvoting it and nothing stopping people who like it from writing overview articles, with everyone clearly understanding how the process works. [turn the craziness filtering on].

Now the above strategy might sound impractical, but perhaps the policy exists with practical results that would be indistinguishable from the results above for a typical observer. That is, one could try to act as if such a bot existed and had already posted all what-if questions and open problems.

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Anton Geraschenko comments on "When is the question "what is X?" acceptable?" (285) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=285#Comment_285 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=285#Comment_285 Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:47:36 -0800 Anton Geraschenko What about this question: http://mathoverflow.net/questions/4841/what-precisely-is-categorification?

The wikipedia article is pretty terse, and categorification seems more like a yoga than a precise thing, so I feel like it might be okay, but it feels borderline.

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Andrew Stacey comments on "When is the question "what is X?" acceptable?" (121) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=121#Comment_121 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=121#Comment_121 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:34:43 -0800 Andrew Stacey I'm a bit worried about being referred to as a "MOflower" as I'd be very worried about meeting a "MOwer".

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Ben Webster comments on "When is the question "what is X?" acceptable?" (113) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=113#Comment_113 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=113#Comment_113 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 07:23:10 -0800 Ben Webster Anton Geraschenko comments on "When is the question "what is X?" acceptable?" (109) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=109#Comment_109 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=109#Comment_109 Sun, 01 Nov 2009 09:22:35 -0800 Anton Geraschenko @Kevin: You're right that is an awkward, non-grammatical sentence. I've changed it in the FAQ to "Math Overflow visitors should know how to learn new things and do mathematics on their own, but we all get stuck sometimes, and this is where MO saves the day." I was considering using "Math Overflowers" instead of "Math Overflow visitors", but I wasn't sure if it would abbreviate to MOers or MOflowers.

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Kevin Lin comments on "When is the question "what is X?" acceptable?" (104) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=104#Comment_104 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=104#Comment_104 Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:47:43 -0700 Kevin Lin
@Anton: The sentence "People who visit this site knows basically how to learn and do mathematics" is a bit weird/confusing. ]]>
Anton Geraschenko comments on "When is the question "what is X?" acceptable?" (88) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=88#Comment_88 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=88#Comment_88 Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:53:55 -0700 Anton Geraschenko @Ilya: good catch. I missed a slash. It should be fixed now.

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Ilya Nikokoshev comments on "When is the question "what is X?" acceptable?" (86) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=86#Comment_86 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=86#Comment_86 Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:14:44 -0700 Ilya Nikokoshev Anton Geraschenko comments on "When is the question "what is X?" acceptable?" (85) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=85#Comment_85 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=85#Comment_85 Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:55:18 -0700 Anton Geraschenko I've updated the FAQ. As always, feedback is welcome.

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Ilya Nikokoshev comments on "When is the question "what is X?" acceptable?" (84) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=84#Comment_84 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=84#Comment_84 Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:16:21 -0700 Ilya Nikokoshev Scott Morrison comments on "When is the question "what is X?" acceptable?" (82) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=82#Comment_82 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=82#Comment_82 Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:34:43 -0700 Scott Morrison
Can we move the "MO is not" into the FAQ? I'd like to be able to link to it when leaving comments to close. For "MO is not an encyclopedia" I think we should actually point to wikipedia *first*, then nLab, as Ben said elsewhere. ]]>
Scott Morrison comments on "When is the question "what is X?" acceptable?" (81) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=81#Comment_81 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=81#Comment_81 Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:33:54 -0700 Scott Morrison Anton Geraschenko comments on "When is the question "what is X?" acceptable?" (72) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=72#Comment_72 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=72#Comment_72 Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:47:18 -0700 Anton Geraschenko @ilyani: I'm glad you joined this discussion, and that you're thinking about this. I hope you don't take my objections to your questions personally.

The reason I brought this up here on meta is that I can't quite put my finger on what it is that I find objectionable about these questions. But it looks like other people agree with me that MO is best suited for "questions that have an answer". Obviously, "what is X?" is a question that has an answer, so let me try to elaborate what I mean by this. Everybody who visits MO knows basically how to learn and do mathematics. But we all get stuck sometimes, and this is where I imagine MO saving the day. When you're stuck, you can go to MO and say "I'm trying to do X. How can I do that? Does this work? Does anybody have a reference?" The idea being that for an expert, it should take very little effort to understand your confusion and set you on the right path. Or maybe a non-expert has come across the same sticking point and can explain how she resolved it.

Of course, I do think there is a place for big picture questions on MO, but even these philosophical questions should "have answers." An excellent example of a big picture question (and answer) is Limit Linear Series. Notice that even though this is a big picture philosophical question, it is definitely very to the point. In this case, an expert was able to see the question, understand very quickly exactly what problem the asker was having, and provide a succinct to-the-point answer.

Even opinion questions have some place at MO. Though the MO framework is terrible for discussions (by design!), the voting mechanism makes it useful for making sorted lists of useful resources. Obviously, these kinds of questions should be community wiki.

Obviously, I don't actually have any more experience with MO than anybody else, but I did spend several months thinking about it. I'm glad that there are smart people here on meta to discuss exactly what niche(s) MO should fill. Here are some of my opinions about what MO is not (subject to change/addendum, of course). I'm happy to hear other people's thoughts.

  • "MO is not the place for help with your homework." Hopefully, this one is crystal clear to everybody by now. There are lots of other sites where students can ask for math homework help. I don't think MO should take over that niche.
  • "MO is not a discussion forum." Though there's place for opinions, MO is absolutely the wrong framework for having a discussion. Discussions are more appropriate on blogs or threaded forums. I don't think MO should take over that niche.
  • "MO is not an encyclopedia." As I discussed above, MO should be a place for "questions with answers." My understanding is that nLab is a good place to ask for expository articles about a topic. I don't think MO should take over that niche.
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Ilya Nikokoshev comments on "When is the question "what is X?" acceptable?" (71) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=71#Comment_71 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=71#Comment_71 Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:22:35 -0700 Ilya Nikokoshev Ilya Nikokoshev comments on "When is the question "what is X?" acceptable?" (70) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=70#Comment_70 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=70#Comment_70 Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:18:11 -0700 Ilya Nikokoshev
I think you're misunderstanding what I was asking for in this question. I provided the details about what I know (Floer homology) and asked what properties does some well-known construction have. I expected my level and question to be quite obvious for an expert in symplectic geometry. So I don't really see it as different from the questions other people ask in areas like algebraic geometry. Now as for "serious thinking" -- if right now I open a reference and spend an hour trying to answer a specific question, does that count to you? – Ilya Nikokoshev 1 hour ago

"It wastes the time of whoever is polite enough to answer the question because it doesn't give them any idea where you're coming from; the only option is to write an article. " -- just to let me stop wasting your time having this discussion, could you verify this with Steven Sivek, the poster below, before continuing to make this claim? – Ilya Nikokoshev 1 hour ago

But for the record, yes, I know that I often pose ill-defined questions and everybody will benefit if I put more effort into improving them. – Ilya Nikokoshev 1 hour ago

Also, I looked into nLab and I agree it's better suited for long questions that ask things like "What is the area X". It's good you helped me to find it. If I knew where to put it, I would be happy to write a post about "What MathOverflow is and isn't" with references to sites like nLab, and explanations that would also help others. – Ilya Nikokoshev 1 hour ago ]]>
Ilya Nikokoshev comments on "When is the question "what is X?" acceptable?" (68) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=68#Comment_68 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=68#Comment_68 Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:05:50 -0700 Ilya Nikokoshev
First a little introduction. I'm the author of the question about Floer homology (http://mathoverflow.net/questions/2903/what-is-floer-homology-of-a-knot) which apparently started this topic as well as the author of http://mathoverflow.net/questions/2875/unitary-representations-of-sl2-r.

Second, I do strive to learn to write things better, which is one of the reasons why I often revisit my old questions and edit my new questions a lot. It's indeed very often that I myself find my question not well-written and completely reedit it, so I know you must have the urge to edit, downvote or close my questions as well.

If you're interested in this discussion, would it be possible to have it in a conversation format? I see I've been identified me as the person behind an unwelcome trend, but I don't think this should be bad news. Rather, I think it should be good news: I certainly know I'm here to learn; given that, identifying the problem would improve an already great site a lot.

If you want to talk about the specific question of mine, that one isn't as general as many people have naively guessed - read the comments, the Wikipedia page and the answer for details if you prefer. But I agree it could be much better.

If one talks about the general practice of me posting vague questions -- well, I'm putting a moratorium on it indeed if the consensus has found it to be detrimental to the well-being of the community. You do need to tell me how my questions are different from those of others for me to be able to be more effective. ]]>
Ben Webster comments on "When is the question "what is X?" acceptable?" (67) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=67#Comment_67 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=67#Comment_67 Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:13:59 -0700 Ben Webster
@Scott: Just one more piece of evidence that this is a one-person-trend. ]]>
Scott Morrison comments on "When is the question "what is X?" acceptable?" (65) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=65#Comment_65 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=65#Comment_65 Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:59:04 -0700 Scott Morrison Anton Geraschenko comments on "When is the question "what is X?" acceptable?" (64) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=64#Comment_64 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=64#Comment_64 Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:52:37 -0700 Anton Geraschenko @bwebster: I wanted to confirm that I'm not the only one who feels this way. I also wanted to get other peoples' opinions about the right way to handle this kind of thing. A chat is a most appropriate suggestion. Also, now I can point people to this thread whenever I come across this kind of a problem.

@Scott: I really like the "MO is not an encyclopedia" slogan.

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Scott Morrison comments on "When is the question "what is X?" acceptable?" (61) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=61#Comment_61 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=61#Comment_61 Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:37:37 -0700 Scott Morrison
I also think we should consider a "mathoverflow is not an encyclopedia" ethos at some point. People shouldn't be asking questions just because they'll prompt someone (else!) to write an encyclopedia entry. ]]>
alekzander comments on "When is the question "what is X?" acceptable?" (57) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=57#Comment_57 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=57#Comment_57 Tue, 27 Oct 2009 18:51:37 -0700 alekzander Ben Webster comments on "When is the question "what is X?" acceptable?" (55) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=55#Comment_55 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=55#Comment_55 Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:59:42 -0700 Ben Webster Anton Geraschenko comments on "When is the question "what is X?" acceptable?" (54) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=54#Comment_54 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/16/when-is-the-question-what-is-x-acceptable/?Focus=54#Comment_54 Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:41:00 -0700 Anton Geraschenko Lately, I've seen some questions (not very many) along the lines of "What is the definition of X?" or "What do you think about X?" where X might be something quite involved, and the asker doesn't provide any background or motivation. I'm tempted to close these as "not a real question" because it feels to me like it's wasting the time of whoever is polite enough to answer. If I were a 3000+ rep user rather than a moderator, I would definitely vote to close. For now, I just downvote the question and leave a comment to the effect of "please ask a more specific question."

Am I over-reacting? Do other people want to see these kinds of questions? Certainly there are some examples where the question is appropriate (e.g. What is the field with one element?) which don't fall into the offensive category I'm trying to describe.

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