tea.mathoverflow.net - Discussion Feed (Snob) Sun, 04 Nov 2018 23:24:48 -0800 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.1.9 & Feed Publisher Harry Gindi comments on "Snob" (8162) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8162#Comment_8162 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8162#Comment_8162 Fri, 06 Aug 2010 22:27:52 -0700 Harry Gindi @Andy: There's really nothing I can do about it now, but I take your point to heart.

]]>
Andy Putman comments on "Snob" (8161) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8161#Comment_8161 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8161#Comment_8161 Fri, 06 Aug 2010 22:15:23 -0700 Andy Putman
Maybe you won't get suspended from MO (though if I were a moderator I'd consider it), but certainly people on MO are very aware of your actions on MU and many people have posted their strong disapproval here on meta. I'd think about what kind of impression this leaves people who will decide your future (eg grad school admissions and hiring). ]]>
Harry Gindi comments on "Snob" (8159) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8159#Comment_8159 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8159#Comment_8159 Fri, 06 Aug 2010 21:41:46 -0700 Harry Gindi That was not on MO. I wouldn't think of speaking like that on MO.

]]>
AndrewL comments on "Snob" (8158) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8158#Comment_8158 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8158#Comment_8158 Fri, 06 Aug 2010 21:30:43 -0700 AndrewL

Holy crap-and you guys tossed ME out on my fat butt for speaking out of turn?!? ]]>
Harry Gindi comments on "Snob" (8153) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8153#Comment_8153 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8153#Comment_8153 Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:06:15 -0700 Harry Gindi I will make sure to add a disclaimer at the bottom of any such post.

]]>
Kevin Lin comments on "Snob" (8152) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8152#Comment_8152 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8152#Comment_8152 Fri, 06 Aug 2010 10:23:11 -0700 Kevin Lin Harry: evidently many of us here myself included are not comfortable with you acting as or appearing to be a spokesperson for MO. I hope that you will be more careful in the future about this, both here at MO and meta.MO, as well as anywhere else online and offline. Thank you.

]]>
Andrea comments on "Snob" (8150) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8150#Comment_8150 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8150#Comment_8150 Fri, 06 Aug 2010 08:04:15 -0700 Andrea As both comments are now gone, I'm puzzled about what are we talking about.

]]>
Harry Gindi comments on "Snob" (8148) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8148#Comment_8148 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8148#Comment_8148 Fri, 06 Aug 2010 05:36:58 -0700 Harry Gindi Dear Emerton,

I note only that I was responding to a post that was, in light of the facts, at best uninformed and facile, and at worst ignorant and unnecessarily insulting. I was merely returning the gesture (a rude one, at that). I also don't really agree about the "intrinsic merit" of the questions here compared to that of the questions there.

]]>
Emerton comments on "Snob" (8146) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8146#Comment_8146 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8146#Comment_8146 Fri, 06 Aug 2010 05:17:26 -0700 Emerton Dear Harry,

I think that your comment was misguided in almost every aspect: in its language (unnecessarily rude), in it's use of the first person plural (you don't speak for MO), and in its invocation of the ICM (quite possibly, the poster has not heard of the ICM, and even if they have, doesn't care about it or have any sense of its professional significance). Even your choice of adjective (selective) is probably not the best, although it is literally correct. I think it would be better to simply explain (if any response is necessary at all) that MO is not meant as a Q&A site for general mathematics questions, but has a more restricted focus. (So the selectivity is not based on the intrinsic merit of questions, but simply on their relevance to the (very restricted) area of focus of MO.)

]]>
Harry Gindi comments on "Snob" (8142) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8142#Comment_8142 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8142#Comment_8142 Fri, 06 Aug 2010 03:54:58 -0700 Harry Gindi I didn't delete it. It was deleted by a moderator, and I was "modded out" for two days. Civil disobedience and all that.

I don't understand why making the ICM reference is all that absurd. The difference is in degree (admittedly a pretty big difference) only.

]]>
Hailong Dao comments on "Snob" (8141) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8141#Comment_8141 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8141#Comment_8141 Fri, 06 Aug 2010 03:53:40 -0700 Hailong Dao @Harry: thanks for deleting it! My point was that using "speaking at ICM" to discuss "participation on MO" is quite absurd too (not to mention the language). I would have no issue if you made clear that what you wrote is your own opinion, but the way you wrote it (to me, admittedly a non-native speaker) may cause casual readers to think it is the common attitude on MO.

]]>
Harry Gindi comments on "Snob" (8135) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8135#Comment_8135 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8135#Comment_8135 Fri, 06 Aug 2010 03:04:36 -0700 Harry Gindi @Hailong: To explain that quote, my point was that if we took the reasoning to its logical conclusion, having JQ Public speaking at the ICM, it's clearly absurd.

]]>
Yemon Choi comments on "Snob" (8127) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8127#Comment_8127 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8127#Comment_8127 Thu, 05 Aug 2010 23:44:16 -0700 Yemon Choi Bill: the examples of our egregious inconsistency that you allude to should be linked to, no? We could learn from historians in this regard in terms of source attribution and analysis.

]]>
Yemon Choi comments on "Snob" (8126) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8126#Comment_8126 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8126#Comment_8126 Thu, 05 Aug 2010 23:39:53 -0700 Yemon Choi I would like to think that if we give reasons and sympathy (if not empathy) as we close questions, then perhaps the perception of snobbery on our part would be ameliorated.

But if not, then could I venture that my day job involves helping people other than myself or my collaborators, without thought of reaping benefit for my own work or entertainment or edification. MO is not part of my job.

]]>
sean tilson comments on "Snob" (8125) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8125#Comment_8125 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8125#Comment_8125 Thu, 05 Aug 2010 22:16:13 -0700 sean tilson
you might be interested to note that there is a proposed Calculus.SE at Area 51 right now.

PS, @Harry: sometimes you dont help, but as jose said, you are spot on and i sympathize with your frustration. ]]>
Bill Dubuque comments on "Snob" (8121) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8121#Comment_8121 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8121#Comment_8121 Thu, 05 Aug 2010 20:41:38 -0700 Bill Dubuque @VP Yes, that's yet another class of inconsistency in question closing. How is a newbie supposed to make heads or tails of what is on-topic with no good model to extrapolate from? When off-topic or very soft questions often sit on the front page can we blame newbies for inferring that such posts are on-topic at MO? And when we swiftly and forcefully close their soft questions - but not ours - should we be surprised at being calleds snobs for doing so? I think not.

]]>
VP comments on "Snob" (8115) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8115#Comment_8115 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8115#Comment_8115 Thu, 05 Aug 2010 19:57:50 -0700 VP Bill, at various times I was quite concerned with inconsistency of questions closure and raised it on meta, but clearly this isn't the only issue shaping public perception of MO, and not even the main one. As far as "snobbery" is concerned, it can be expressed in many ways that are quite independent of closing questions. Often, the problem goes the other way: many clearly inappropriate questions (e.g. K-12 homework type) are very helpfully answered before, or even instead of, getting closed, which runs counter to both the stated purpose of the site and refutes the charge. In other words, there is a broad spectrum of outcomes.

More generally, I agree with José that a healthy dose of intellectual elitism is nothing to be ashamed of, especially, since the target audience is mathematics professionals. Maintaining high standards is rarely popular with general masses, be it teaching service math courses or running a question and answer mathematics website with research focus. FWIW, the comment cited by Mariano is very mild in this regard.

"Questions sitting on the front page" is a fundamental feature of the website, so each of us will do well to exercise some tolerance, even though many or even most of them at any given time may not appeal to a particular user or a group.

]]>
Andy Putman comments on "Snob" (8114) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8114#Comment_8114 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8114#Comment_8114 Thu, 05 Aug 2010 19:53:01 -0700 Andy Putman Bill Dubuque comments on "Snob" (8113) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8113#Comment_8113 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8113#Comment_8113 Thu, 05 Aug 2010 19:52:30 -0700 Bill Dubuque José Figueroa comments on "Snob" (8112) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8112#Comment_8112 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8112#Comment_8112 Thu, 05 Aug 2010 19:51:39 -0700 José Figueroa 1) I don't believe that 97832123 represents MO 2) The choice of words is unfortunate 3) The germ of the idea, though, that MO strives to a certain ideal of intellectual discourse, is spot on.

]]>
Hailong Dao comments on "Snob" (8111) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8111#Comment_8111 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8111#Comment_8111 Thu, 05 Aug 2010 19:47:58 -0700 Hailong Dao

@Ian: We're not snobbish, just selective. Maybe you could take your head out of your ass for a second and realize that, for example, just any layperson shouldn't have the right to speak at the ICM. – 97832123

Dear 97832123: as someone who is not speaking at the ICM anytime soon, I am a little uncomfortable with this comment representing "we" MO users.

]]>
Mariano comments on "Snob" (8110) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8110#Comment_8110 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8110#Comment_8110 Thu, 05 Aug 2010 19:43:44 -0700 Mariano Bill, there are 2 and a half pages of people who can vote to close, at 35 people a page. I would be depressed if that many people were not able to come up with inconsistency with regards to what they value.

I do not see it as a bad thing that a community like ours show interest and appreciation in some of its members. Why would be treat John Stillwell or JS Milne in the same way we treat unknown (google)?

]]>
Bill Dubuque comments on "Snob" (8105) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8105#Comment_8105 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8105#Comment_8105 Thu, 05 Aug 2010 19:12:39 -0700 Bill Dubuque
@97832123 Your extremely rude comment there will only serve to reinforce such perceptions of MO. ]]>
Akhil Mathew comments on "Snob" (8098) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8098#Comment_8098 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8098#Comment_8098 Thu, 05 Aug 2010 18:54:43 -0700 Akhil Mathew
For MSE (I second Mariano's proposal of that as the new acronym), note that right now, a lot of the active users are just MO users who want to let their hair down and answer questions at a lower level (or in my case, be able to answer questions). So I doubt there will be much anti-MO sentiment built up on the website, since they (or we, I should say) have a strong influence on the culture. ]]>
Harry Gindi comments on "Snob" (8097) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8097#Comment_8097 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8097#Comment_8097 Thu, 05 Aug 2010 18:50:26 -0700 Harry Gindi I get the impression that this reputation is what has kept away the real pests.

]]>
José Figueroa comments on "Snob" (8095) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8095#Comment_8095 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8095#Comment_8095 Thu, 05 Aug 2010 18:33:15 -0700 José Figueroa Épater le bourgeois? :)

Seriously, though, I don't think that this is something to be alarmed by. One person's snobbery is another person's intellectual elitism and I, personally, do not think that's something to be ashamed of. I would be surprised if the intended audience of MO (researchers in mathematics and cognate areas) would shirk away from participating in the site based on any such perception of snobbery.

]]>
Mariano comments on "Snob" (8093) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8093#Comment_8093 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/583/snob/?Focus=8093#Comment_8093 Thu, 05 Aug 2010 18:24:16 -0700 Mariano I just read the first comment to the M.SE (yes: I got tired of typing Math.SE...) question http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/1648/how-do-i-figure-out-what-kind-of-distribution-this-is/1650#1650

I've seen remarks to the same effect elsewhere.

Should something be done to change that perception?

]]>