tea.mathoverflow.net - Discussion Feed (Did I do something wrong here?) Sun, 04 Nov 2018 13:39:53 -0800 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.1.9 & Feed Publisher Harry Gindi comments on "Did I do something wrong here?" (3810) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3810#Comment_3810 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3810#Comment_3810 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 15:31:41 -0800 Harry Gindi I mean, that's certainly not my intention...

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Mariano comments on "Did I do something wrong here?" (3809) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3809#Comment_3809 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3809#Comment_3809 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 15:22:01 -0800 Mariano You keep coming up with imaginative ways to annoy people, as evinced precisely by the downvotes you've gotten for all sort of things. The best plan would be to stop doing such things...

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Harry Gindi comments on "Did I do something wrong here?" (3801) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3801#Comment_3801 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3801#Comment_3801 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:34:55 -0800 Harry Gindi The main reason that people started voting down the original question (which is not closed) was because I changed the title to "Using mathematics to improve the environment" at one point. The current question was closed because it was a repost of the original one.

I also wasn't making a fuss about the points. I mean, yes, I posted it as a separate thread, but if Anton or Scott had clearly said "No, that is against the rules" when I e-mailed them, I wouldn't have posted it as a new question at all (not to blame them, we're in different time-zones after all). Certainly it was a mathematical question, and I found an answer to it, so it's not completely insane to not want it to be community wiki. I asked the moderators, but in my haste, I did not wait for a definitive answer and posted it as a separate question. Not everything is so black and white.

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Kevin Lin comments on "Did I do something wrong here?" (3798) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3798#Comment_3798 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3798#Comment_3798 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:36:09 -0800 Kevin Lin I do not think the main reason people started voting the question down was because of any joke title. I think the main reason was probably because the question was a duplicate of another question. Evidence: the reason given for the closure of the question, and the comments to the question, and the upvotes to the comments to the question.

You haven't addressed the question: what's the difficulty with answering a community wiki question?

I hope you will stop making such a fuss about community wiki stuff and points and accepted answers and so forth. Maybe you're right that the way things are currently set up is unfair. Well, so what? Sometimes some things are just not fair. Sometimes we should just accept it and not make a fuss and move on. Especially if it's such a pointless, petty matter having to do with a negligible amount of meaningless points on some website.

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Harry Gindi comments on "Did I do something wrong here?" (3794) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3794#Comment_3794 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3794#Comment_3794 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:17:27 -0800 Harry Gindi Prof. Zare did not spend any time on the user (presumably he spent time on the problem). I will work on a problem posted on MO because I find it interesting, not because x, y, or even z posted it. I would assume that he found the problem interesting enough to give it some thought. That is not my fault.

I still don't understand why everyone got so angry about the joke title (if you remember the thread posted a while ago as "please check my proof of the Riemann Hypothesis", which was not me, you can check to see that people did not respond so violently to it). This is what pissed people off enough to start voting the question down.

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Douglas Zare comments on "Did I do something wrong here?" (3793) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3793#Comment_3793 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3793#Comment_3793 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:16:44 -0800 Douglas Zare Pedant comments on "Did I do something wrong here?" (3792) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3792#Comment_3792 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3792#Comment_3792 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:11:45 -0800 Pedant @fpqc. Whatever your intention on this particular post, my statement does not change regarding your general strategy of attention seeking.

About your last response to Douglas Zare: Yes, exactly, a new user is worth spending time on. But fpqc has a long history of being a rude and unreasonable troublemaker best avoided.

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Harry Gindi comments on "Did I do something wrong here?" (3791) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3791#Comment_3791 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3791#Comment_3791 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:11:07 -0800 Harry Gindi Prof. Zare neither posted an answer nor a comment on the original question, so presumably he means time spent working on the problem. If it were an intractable problem or a problem that didn't have an answer, I could understand Prof. Zare thinking that his time was wasted, but he spent time doing mathematics. I'm sorry, but if you feel that your time was not well-spent working on a problem that I posted, there's nothing I can do about it.

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Regenbogen comments on "Did I do something wrong here?" (3790) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3790#Comment_3790 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3790#Comment_3790 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:06:30 -0800 Regenbogen I think having more than one userid is ok, unless there are no explicit problems created.

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Harry Gindi comments on "Did I do something wrong here?" (3789) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3789#Comment_3789 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3789#Comment_3789 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:01:09 -0800 Harry Gindi I don't see how that makes it a worse question. Again, the users fpqc and GLC never interacted, so there should be no problem. It's kind of telling that you consider helping me a waste of time but not an unregistered user.

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Douglas Zare comments on "Did I do something wrong here?" (3788) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3788#Comment_3788 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3788#Comment_3788 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 07:54:29 -0800 Douglas Zare Emerton comments on "Did I do something wrong here?" (3787) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3787#Comment_3787 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3787#Comment_3787 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 07:46:45 -0800 Emerton I would just like to add that to those who follow topics of interest to fpqc/GLC, it was pretty obvious that these were the same user, and so the danger of people being misled by the existence of both accounts was minimal, I think.

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Harry Gindi comments on "Did I do something wrong here?" (3786) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3786#Comment_3786 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3786#Comment_3786 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 07:23:44 -0800 Harry Gindi We should get rid of the auto-CW thing and the autoaccepted answers thing.

@Pedant: That was not my intention. I really thought that reposting the thread would not be a problem. I first e-mailed Scott and Anton (although Scott responded with confusion and Anton didn't respond until several hours later), but after I received Scott's confused response, I made the post (no, he did not give me permission, but he also didn't say not to do it).

The whole e-mail exchange:

Dear Scott,

You may remember the question I asked as GLC about formally étale being a local property. This is in fact true, and I'd like to post the answer, but the question is now community wiki. Would you be opposed to me asking the question and then answering it?

Thanks,
fpqc


fpqc,

I'm confused, what's the difficulty with answering a community wiki question?

Best,
Scott

By the way, Scott, if you'd like me to remove the e-mail from here, I will (or you can do it yourself as a moderator). I'm sorry for not first asking your permission, but I thought it was innocuous enough for me to post it here. I sent the same e-mail to Anton, who responded several hours later, but at that point, it was too late.

More than anything, I was just excited to have an answer to the question, and I got impatient waiting for a response from Anton or Scott, so I went ahead with the plan.

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Pedant comments on "Did I do something wrong here?" (3784) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3784#Comment_3784 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3784#Comment_3784 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 07:15:15 -0800 Pedant @Douglas: fpqc's method of attention seeking is not through sockpuppetry. He just creates some trouble, or does something out of the ordinary, until people notice it and react through comments and negvotes. And then someone might start a meta thread on the issue, failing which he will start one himself.

No better way for a math undergrad to be in the limelight in the international stage. Kudos, +1 to fpqc for the inventiveness.

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Douglas Zare comments on "Did I do something wrong here?" (3773) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3773#Comment_3773 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3773#Comment_3773 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:21:47 -0800 Douglas Zare Scott Morrison comments on "Did I do something wrong here?" (3772) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3772#Comment_3772 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3772#Comment_3772 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:17:10 -0800 Scott Morrison I was aware of the double accounts (thanks to Pete, in fact) and I think I monitored closely enough to be sure that nothing nefarious was going on. I raised the subject of perceived sock-puppetry early, and in private, and I'm happy with how everything played out: fpqc handled using a second account in an appropriate and sensible manner.

On the matter of this particular post, I'd encourage everyone to follow Noah's thinking --- optimize your behaviour for the benefit of someone using google in 5 years time, when you're (metaphorically :-) dead and gone. We're still in the earliest days of mathoverflow (hopefully), and as time passes the main value of mathoverflow will shift, relatively, from the the everyday community of interactions towards the long-tail of googleable answers.

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Anton Geraschenko comments on "Did I do something wrong here?" (3768) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3768#Comment_3768 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3768#Comment_3768 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:25:03 -0800 Anton Geraschenko This was not sockpuppetry. Neither account was used to vote for or otherwise support the other. The two accounts did not interact in any way, so I think it was perfectly kosher.

If somebody wants to post anonymously rather than using their normal account for some reason, I think they should be able to do so. After all, they would be allowed to post anonymously if they didn't have a registered account. Of course, I'd prefer that people be open about their identity whenever possible, and any actual sockpuppetry would be a big no-no, as Noah said. If somebody has a separate anonymous account for posting spammy or offensive content (or otherwise misbehaving), I have no problem with suspending all accounts which I believe are controlled by the offending party.

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Harry Gindi comments on "Did I do something wrong here?" (3767) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3767#Comment_3767 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3767#Comment_3767 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:08:27 -0800 Harry Gindi I had asked Anton to bar me from entering my main account a while back so things would cool down (about a month ago), so I was posting from the GLC=LASER=Lasergun unregistered account. I asked Anton in advance if this was okay to do. However, I (as GLC) screwed it up by trying to mislead people into clicking on the post, which pissed enough people off that I didn't want to be associated with the user. I was still interested in the question, though, which put me in an odd position.

Edit: Yes, and to avoid conflicts of interest, I did not register the account (thereby making it so I couldn't vote).

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Pete L. Clark comments on "Did I do something wrong here?" (3766) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3766#Comment_3766 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3766#Comment_3766 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:05:53 -0800 Pete L. Clark Noah Snyder comments on "Did I do something wrong here?" (3764) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3764#Comment_3764 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3764#Comment_3764 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:58:24 -0800 Noah Snyder Noah Snyder comments on "Did I do something wrong here?" (3763) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3763#Comment_3763 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3763#Comment_3763 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:56:32 -0800 Noah Snyder
That said it's not such a big deal. It was closed (as is appropriate for a duplicate) and you shouldn't do it again, but really it's not such a big deal. ]]>
Anton Geraschenko comments on "Did I do something wrong here?" (3760) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3760#Comment_3760 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3760#Comment_3760 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:22:56 -0800 Anton Geraschenko

Anyway, I think that the thread should be reopened because I'm actually interested in seeing if the argument can be simplified further. That's why I didn't immediately accept my own answer.

As Kevin said, anybody interested in contributing to any answer to the question can already easily do so. The more you explain why you reposted, the more it seems like you did it for exactly the wrong reasons. I hope I'm just misunderstanding.

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Anton Geraschenko comments on "Did I do something wrong here?" (3759) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3759#Comment_3759 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3759#Comment_3759 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:15:13 -0800 Anton Geraschenko Yes, I'll merge GLC with you now. Sorry about "outing" you, but I assumed you were aiming to announce it anyway, since your repost makes absolutely no sense otherwise. The only two arguments I can think of would be

  • I clearly have the true correct answer, but the asker won't be able to accept it because of the bounty rules, so I'll repost and answer the question. This reasoning would be presumptuous, rude to the original asker, and rude to the community because it populates the site with duplicates. This argument at least makes some sense if you're the person who originally asked the question. (btw, if you have a meta.SE account, please vote up this post, which suggests a very nice re-implementation of the bounty system.)
  • I have an answer but I don't want to post it here because it would be forced to be CW because of the CW rules, so I'll repost and answer the question. This would be rude in the same ways as the previous one, but without any defensible reason behind it. This argument doesn't make sense even if you are the person who originally asked the question.

I think the best thing to do would've been to just post a new answer to the old question.

Anyway, given that the repost did make some sense, I'd like to know what's the best thing to do about it. I think leaving the duplicate question separate is a silly thing to do; there's no reason all the answers shouldn't be in one thread.

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Kevin Lin comments on "Did I do something wrong here?" (3758) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3758#Comment_3758 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3758#Comment_3758 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:10:40 -0800 Kevin Lin @fpqc:

Suggestion: Stop thinking about points.

Points might play a role on the site in a broad sense, but for petty little special cases like this, certainly almost nobody cares. Surely anybody who is capable of simplifying the argument further won't feel any less motivated to do so by whether something is community wiki or not.

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Harry Gindi comments on "Did I do something wrong here?" (3757) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3757#Comment_3757 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3757#Comment_3757 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 17:33:14 -0800 Harry Gindi Well, since I've been "outed", can I be reunited with GLC?

Also, I don't feel bad for Bjorn because he won the 100 point bounty.

Lastly, I already have the power to vote to close. Why would I be "reputation whoring" now of all times? I just felt like that thread had been ruined by controversy community wikifying and autoaccepting of answers, so I decided to start a new one, so we could start with a "clean slate".

Anyway, I think that the thread should be reopened because I'm actually interested in seeing if the argument can be simplified further. That's why I didn't immediately accept my own answer.

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Anton Geraschenko comments on "Did I do something wrong here?" (3756) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3756#Comment_3756 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3756#Comment_3756 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 17:09:33 -0800 Anton Geraschenko I don't really see what problem reposting the question solves. I understand that the CW and bounty rules are a little annoying, but I think posting a duplicate is more annoying. I'd like to merge the questions (effectively moving the new answer to the old question).

Incidentally, I suppose I could merge the original question into the new one. In addition to moving the answers over, I believe this would have the effect of unaccepting the answer. Though it's better than nothing, I find this option distasteful for a couple of reasons:

  • It just doesn't feel right to merge the original into the duplicate.
  • It would annihilate the comment thread to the original question, and the comment thread to the new question would become nonsense.
  • It would leave Bjorn's answer CW, which seems unfair. The CW rules are a bit weird, but they should at least be fairly applied. I have to say that this repost looks a lot like you're just trying to gain some reputation. If your real objection was that there was no way your answer could be accepted, you probably should have made your repost CW.

By the way, fpqc is the same person as Giant Laser Cannon. If he weren't, such a repost would be totally unacceptable.

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Harry Gindi comments on "Did I do something wrong here?" (3755) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3755#Comment_3755 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/277/did-i-do-something-wrong-here/?Focus=3755#Comment_3755 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 16:08:20 -0800 Harry Gindi I reposted a question that had a bounty-forced accepted answer and forced community wiki status so I could post a complete answer. This seems like a legitimate thing to do, at least to me. Have I done something wrong?

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