tea.mathoverflow.net - Discussion Feed (Retagging) Sun, 04 Nov 2018 23:16:38 -0800 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.1.9 & Feed Publisher Anton Geraschenko comments on "Retagging" (13593) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=13593#Comment_13593 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=13593#Comment_13593 Sat, 05 Mar 2011 17:54:00 -0800 Anton Geraschenko There is no shame in pulling up a couple of old questions for some oxygen. It's even a good thing. It should only be cause for embarrassment if you're really flooding the home page or if you're bumping terrible questions.

]]>
Qiaochu Yuan comments on "Retagging" (13584) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=13584#Comment_13584 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=13584#Comment_13584 Sat, 05 Mar 2011 14:22:35 -0800 Qiaochu Yuan Only by moderators, who can merge tags.

]]>
ESQG comments on "Retagging" (13582) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=13582#Comment_13582 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=13582#Comment_13582 Sat, 05 Mar 2011 12:57:12 -0800 ESQG Steve Huntsman comments on "Retagging" (9286) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=9286#Comment_9286 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=9286#Comment_9286 Wed, 29 Sep 2010 12:53:58 -0700 Steve Huntsman louigi comments on "Retagging" (9285) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=9285#Comment_9285 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=9285#Comment_9285 Wed, 29 Sep 2010 12:42:51 -0700 louigi
If the best way for this to occur is for me to compile a list of such questions and then hand the list over to a moderator, that's fine with me. I just don't know if this is the best way to go about it. Suggestions? ]]>
Scott Morrison comments on "Retagging" (6797) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6797#Comment_6797 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6797#Comment_6797 Sat, 10 Jul 2010 08:15:27 -0700 Scott Morrison Done.

]]>
Mariano comments on "Retagging" (6739) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6739#Comment_6739 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6739#Comment_6739 Wed, 07 Jul 2010 10:43:25 -0700 Mariano Seconded.

]]>
Scott Morrison comments on "Retagging" (6737) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6737#Comment_6737 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6737#Comment_6737 Wed, 07 Jul 2010 10:01:58 -0700 Scott Morrison Okay, my preferred solution at this point is to merge [visual-math] into [tag-removed], which isn't a great solution, but seems to be the best.

]]>
Gjergji comments on "Retagging" (6734) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6734#Comment_6734 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6734#Comment_6734 Wed, 07 Jul 2010 00:33:04 -0700 Gjergji supercooldave comments on "Retagging" (6733) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6733#Comment_6733 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6733#Comment_6733 Wed, 07 Jul 2010 00:01:52 -0700 supercooldave Jose Brox comments on "Retagging" (6729) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6729#Comment_6729 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6729#Comment_6729 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 20:52:08 -0700 Jose Brox
As Scott very well explained above, "I strongly agree with Yemon that my first example about the octahedral example has nothing to do with visualization, it's purely asking how to render a diagram in LaTeX". But that's precisely my point! It has NOTHING to do with visualization in the broad sense, it just has to do with a question about a visual tool - namely, how to make a good presentation of an octahedral diagram.

I'd like to explain my reasons for tagging the questions you listed above (and see if I slipped on many of them), but here in Spain it is 5.50 in the morning... and I am really tired (have yet to get some sleep!). Is there any way to fix the problem I caused, bring this interesting discussion to a stall for a while, and resume it later?

Anyways, thank you for wanting to arrive to an agreement about the scope of the tag! It is very reasonable and kind of you.

(Edit: It is 6.10 and I really need to go to bed now. If there is an expeditive way to undo what I did, and you feel it necessary to use it, go ahead. We always can arrive to an agreement and retag the selected ones later on) ]]>
Yemon Choi comments on "Retagging" (6728) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6728#Comment_6728 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6728#Comment_6728 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 20:34:09 -0700 Yemon Choi Jose Brox comments on "Retagging" (6727) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6727#Comment_6727 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6727#Comment_6727 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 20:32:52 -0700 Jose Brox Jose Brox comments on "Retagging" (6726) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6726#Comment_6726 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6726#Comment_6726 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 20:30:37 -0700 Jose Brox
I think that it indeed adds value! If you are a visual-oriented person (and I am not talking about a person who likes to have concrete, 'toy' examples of an abstract theory - that would be 'visualize', but rather about a person who likes to simplify problems as muchs as possible by drawing graphs, graphics and diagrams), then you can get insight on a lot of tricks just by browsing the "visual-math" (or whatever we may call it) and having a look at the questions and answers! You even will learn about some useful proofs prior unknown to you.

Well, that's my point of view, anyways (I'm that kind of a mathematician). ]]>
Pete L. Clark comments on "Retagging" (6724) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6724#Comment_6724 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6724#Comment_6724 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 20:28:56 -0700 Pete L. Clark For what it's worth, I agree with Kevin Lin -- many, many questions on MO could be concerned with visualization if one is inclined to construe them that way. It doesn't seem to be a useful way to classify questions.

]]>
Scott Morrison comments on "Retagging" (6723) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6723#Comment_6723 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6723#Comment_6723 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 20:28:13 -0700 Scott Morrison Crossed-posts: Jose, how about you explain why the questions on Yemon's latest list deserve the tag, and we'll see what comes out.

]]>
Scott Morrison comments on "Retagging" (6722) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6722#Comment_6722 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6722#Comment_6722 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 20:27:28 -0700 Scott Morrison Continuing the discussion of individual questions:

I strongly agree with Yemon that my first example about the octahedral example has nothing to do with visualization, it's purely asking how to render a diagram in LaTeX.

I actually went through the list of all the questions you tagged, and I have specific reasons for opposing the [visual-math] tag on each question on my list, and I think it's fine and appropriate on the complement! Perhaps you should try defending others from my list, Jose, so we can come to an agreement about the scope of the tag?

]]>
Yemon Choi comments on "Retagging" (6721) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6721#Comment_6721 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6721#Comment_6721 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 20:25:25 -0700 Yemon Choi
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/25983/intuitive-crutches-for-higher-dimensional-thinking

http://mathoverflow.net/questions/26939/geometric-imagination-of-differential-forms

http://mathoverflow.net/questions/24453/how-does-singular-homology-h-n-capture-the-number-of-n-dimensional-holes-in-a-s

http://mathoverflow.net/questions/20847/why-are-the-dynkin-diagrams-e6-e7-and-e8-always-drawn-the-way-they-are-drawn

http://mathoverflow.net/questions/15322/visualizing-whats-going-on-in-based-homotopy-theory-et-al

http://mathoverflow.net/questions/9991/how-can-i-sample-uniformly-from-a-surface

That said, anyone else reading this thread should also look over Scott's list and offer their own take. ]]>
Mariano comments on "Retagging" (6720) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6720#Comment_6720 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6720#Comment_6720 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 20:21:17 -0700 Mariano Any tag needed so much explanation is probably not very useful to the masses... :P

]]>
Kevin Lin comments on "Retagging" (6719) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6719#Comment_6719 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6719#Comment_6719 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 20:21:14 -0700 Kevin Lin I vote to remove the [visual-math] tag from all questions. No offense, Jose, but I don't think it adds any value. I think that tags are probably best used to classify questions according to subject matter, not according to content type, be it "visual math" or "conceptualization" or "intuition" or any other such thing.

Incidentally, there are many questions tagged with [intuition], [big-picture], and [motivation] -- I think these tags are also needless and should be removed.

]]>
Jose Brox comments on "Retagging" (6718) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6718#Comment_6718 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6718#Comment_6718 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 20:19:30 -0700 Jose Brox
In the nice example you propose, I definitely WON'T add the "visual-math" tag to your question, unless you specifically said somewhere inbetween: "I'd like to find some asymptotic bounds on this sum, and it would be cool if we could do it , or at least approximate them, just by having a look at the right Hasse diagram. Any clues?" (So that I will infere that you indeed want or are in the need of using a visual tool). ]]>
Yemon Choi comments on "Retagging" (6717) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6717#Comment_6717 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6717#Comment_6717 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 20:08:35 -0700 Yemon Choi Jose, in my view the question you link to is a technical question about LaTeX - it is not a question asking about the process of visualization in mathematics. There seems to be a big dividing line between that and a question such as "how should I visualize Teichmueller space?" which, although I don't personally find a very good question, is at least asking about visualization. Similarly, nowhere in the question http://mathoverflow.net/questions/11743/database-of-polyhedrda does the questioner ask about visualization. The fact that what he is asking about can be used in people's private attempts to visualize math(s) seems to me to be a tenuous link.

To continue my line of argument from above, suppose I post a question about the Moebius function of a finite (semi)lattice; would that get tagged with "visual-math" since one usually tries to get a handle on lattices through Hasse diagrams or similar? Even if I was merely asking for some asymptotic bound on a combinatorial convolution-type sum?

]]>
Jose Brox comments on "Retagging" (6714) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6714#Comment_6714 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6714#Comment_6714 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 19:53:04 -0700 Jose Brox
Thanks for raising the issue!

I agree with you in that visualizing is a "brain-imprinted" skill and can appear de facto everywhere in mathematics. But, if you look closely at the questions I tagged, they are 'specifically asking for aids to visualization' (or, at least, that was my intention), although they do not necessarily mention the word 'visualization' (but they ask for drawings, graphics, figures, and the sort). For example, in the first question listed by Scott, http://mathoverflow.net/questions/24737/the-upper-hat-of-an-octahedral-diagram-in-latex, someone wanted some aid in getting a good visualization for an octahedral diagram via latex.

I hope the problem is more with the site upgrading the questions rather than with the tag itself (of course, taking its name apart: I recognize it may be a bit misleading); at least I hope to somewhat convince you, since, for me, that tag (perhaps with a better name) would we useful. ]]>
Jose Brox comments on "Retagging" (6713) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6713#Comment_6713 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6713#Comment_6713 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 19:45:46 -0700 Jose Brox Yemon Choi comments on "Retagging" (6712) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6712#Comment_6712 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6712#Comment_6712 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 19:44:38 -0700 Yemon Choi First: thanks Jose for coming over to this thread to discuss this.

I guess my problem is that, as I see it, almost any question in mathematics can be thought of in visual terms, at least in part, since that seems to exploit a well-evolved part of our neurological setup/training. Should I start tagging functional-analysis questions with "visual-math" just because I'm thinking about block bases or "compact operators squashing regions" or "isometries" moving "mass" far away? How about probability questions where people are thinking of a Brownian motion meandering its way out of a given region?

I just fear that as conceived, the tag just applies too broadly, and if it is to stay it should really be used for questions specifically asking for aids to visualization.

]]>
Jose Brox comments on "Retagging" (6711) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6711#Comment_6711 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6711#Comment_6711 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 19:35:25 -0700 Jose Brox
What is your interpretation of the significance of the tag?

Do you see a common pattern (as I do) in the questions you list? If you do, which name would you suggest for that tag?

I do not really know what a "roll back" is, but I can surely learn it now :D ]]>
Scott Carnahan comments on "Retagging" (6710) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6710#Comment_6710 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6710#Comment_6710 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 19:34:55 -0700 Scott Carnahan [Post is now irrelevant]

]]>
Mariano comments on "Retagging" (6709) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6709#Comment_6709 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6709#Comment_6709 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 19:33:09 -0700 Mariano (It is a bit silly that closing an question ends up with -closed appended to the URL: it breaks references!)

]]>
Scott Morrison comments on "Retagging" (6708) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6708#Comment_6708 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6708#Comment_6708 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 19:30:15 -0700 Scott Morrison I think that many of the questions Jose tagged as [visual-math] should not be tagged as such. Here's my list:

http://mathoverflow.net/questions/24737/the-upper-hat-of-an-octahedral-diagram-in-latex
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/25983/intuitive-crutches-for-higher-dimensional-thinking
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/26939/geometric-imagination-of-differential-forms
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/24453/how-does-singular-homology-h-n-capture-the-number-of-n-dimensional-holes-in-a-s
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/21424/how-to-draw-knots-with-latex
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/21024/what-is-the-exterior-derivative-intuitively
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/20847/why-are-the-dynkin-diagrams-e6-e7-and-e8-always-drawn-the-way-they-are-drawn
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/18758/drawing-a-combinatorial-3-configuration-of-points-and-lines-with-pseudolines
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/15600/how-to-fill-a-simplex-with-almost-disjoint-cuboids
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/17635/drawing-3-configurations-of-points-and-lines-with-straight-lines
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/15322/visualizing-whats-going-on-in-based-homotopy-theory-et-al
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/11743/database-of-polyhedra
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/9991/how-can-i-sample-uniformly-from-a-surface
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/7859/how-to-teach-addition-of-negative-numbers-closed
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/6810/seifert-surfaces-of-torus-knots
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/5936/whats-so-great-about-blackboards-closed
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/5133/how-to-present-overlap-of-related-sets-closed
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/2692/matrices-into-path-algebras
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/1977/why-is-the-gradient-normal
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/1194/how-to-partition-r3-into-pairwise-non-parallel-lines

This is so extensive that my preferred option would just be to merge [visual-math] into [tag-removed], unless we can convince Jose to roll these back himself.

]]>
Jose Brox comments on "Retagging" (6707) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6707#Comment_6707 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6707#Comment_6707 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 19:29:52 -0700 Jose Brox
Jose says: Oh, I'm really sorry about that! I indeed thought that retagging didn't have any effect on the active list. Is there a way to do it "silently"?

Mariano said: (By the way, I have to say that I honestly do not see what exactly is 'visual-math' supposed to be, looking at what he has tagged...)

Jose says: I'm very interested on any kind of proof/method/technique/heuristic/helping idea based on visual skills; thus, I was tagging all the questions which asked for any of them (for particular problems or in a general way). Maybe the tag's name choice is not very fortunate, but I couldn't come up with anything better while keeping its length reasonably short.

Any suggestions about this subject/problem I (unintentionally) created? For starters, I will retag a lot more slowlier from now on. Thanks!

(btw, I prefer spelling my name "Jose" better than "José", because where I live (Andalucía), that's how it is actually pronounced) ]]>
Yemon Choi comments on "Retagging" (6706) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6706#Comment_6706 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6706#Comment_6706 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 19:19:01 -0700 Yemon Choi Harry: well, as I may have said at the time, I don't like the fact that a moderator's vote to close is final (as it were). Also, at the time I said I should be spending less time on MO, and that is certainly true - I'm only on at the moment because I can't get a calculation to come out right...

]]>
Harry Gindi comments on "Retagging" (6705) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6705#Comment_6705 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6705#Comment_6705 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 19:17:12 -0700 Harry Gindi Either one of you could have participated (as candidates) in the moderator election. =p.

]]>
Yemon Choi comments on "Retagging" (6704) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6704#Comment_6704 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6704#Comment_6704 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 19:16:04 -0700 Yemon Choi Fair point Mariano. I was not intending to remove all of them, but my hope was that by removing one or two I could get JB to contact me - I can't find an email address on his profile or weblog or via Google. But as you say this is best left to the Powers That Be. (Who force us to live like we do.)

]]>
Mariano comments on "Retagging" (6703) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6703#Comment_6703 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6703#Comment_6703 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 19:14:40 -0700 Mariano Yemon, please do not remove now the tags.... I think this can be done more quietly by Anton.

]]>
Yemon Choi comments on "Retagging" (6700) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6700#Comment_6700 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6700#Comment_6700 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 18:59:53 -0700 Yemon Choi Oh, for the love of Om...

]]>
Yemon Choi comments on "Retagging" (6698) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6698#Comment_6698 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6698#Comment_6698 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 18:49:50 -0700 Yemon Choi Was just coming here to ask much the same thing. While I try to adhere to "chacun a son gout", I personally am not keen on bumping questions that were closed over 6 months ago ( http://mathoverflow.net/questions/5133/how-to-present-overlap-of-related-sets-closed ) just to add a vague tag. It is not clear to me that this tag is any extra help in searches, which is IMHO the real use of tags.

]]>
Mariano comments on "Retagging" (6697) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6697#Comment_6697 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6697#Comment_6697 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 18:45:27 -0700 Mariano (By the way, I have to say that I honestly do not see what exactly is 'visual-math' supposed to be, looking at what he has tagged...)

]]>
Mariano comments on "Retagging" (6696) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6696#Comment_6696 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/489/retagging/?Focus=6696#Comment_6696 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 18:36:22 -0700 Mariano Is there not a way to do massive retagging without bumping questions to the frontpage? Jose (José, I guess...) Brox has added the 'visual-math' tag to quite a few questions, bumping out half of the active list.

]]>