tea.mathoverflow.net - Discussion Feed (sick of typing mathbf/mathbb) Sun, 04 Nov 2018 13:46:06 -0800 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.1.9 & Feed Publisher Andrew Stacey comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (11603) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=11603#Comment_11603 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=11603#Comment_11603 Fri, 10 Dec 2010 00:13:28 -0800 Andrew Stacey Harry, I'm pleased to hear that as it means we don't have to break you of more bad habits.

Relevant links: http://tex.stackexchange.com/q/1166/86 http://tex.stackexchange.com/q/503/86 http://tex.stackexchange.com/q/510/86

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Harry Gindi comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (11589) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=11589#Comment_11589 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=11589#Comment_11589 Thu, 09 Dec 2010 17:10:54 -0800 Harry Gindi Yes, of course, and I always start my math with \( and my displays with \[...

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Mariano comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (11586) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=11586#Comment_11586 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=11586#Comment_11586 Thu, 09 Dec 2010 15:16:46 -0800 Mariano Aren't those demodé nowadays? I think you should all be using \textbf, \mathbf and so on... :)

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Sam Nead comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (11585) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=11585#Comment_11585 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=11585#Comment_11585 Thu, 09 Dec 2010 15:00:30 -0800 Sam Nead Harry Gindi comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (11165) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=11165#Comment_11165 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=11165#Comment_11165 Tue, 30 Nov 2010 19:25:05 -0800 Harry Gindi By the way, \bf, \cal, and \scr without brackets now apply the font to the entire display. Further, \bb seems not to be working.

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Harry Gindi comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10997) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10997#Comment_10997 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10997#Comment_10997 Tue, 23 Nov 2010 04:17:13 -0800 Harry Gindi Somebody's wrong on the internet.

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Kevin Buzzard comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10990) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10990#Comment_10990 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10990#Comment_10990 Tue, 23 Nov 2010 03:03:38 -0800 Kevin Buzzard José Figueroa comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10977) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10977#Comment_10977 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10977#Comment_10977 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 14:31:22 -0800 José Figueroa @David It's certainly technologically linkable, but it has been linked to so many times, that I thought it socially undesirable to do so.

@Kevin: Yow! :)

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David Speyer comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10976) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10976#Comment_10976 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10976#Comment_10976 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 14:30:01 -0800 David Speyer By the way, xkcd is linkable

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Kevin Buzzard comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10971) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10971#Comment_10971 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10971#Comment_10971 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 13:47:14 -0800 Kevin Buzzard Andrew Stacey comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10957) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10957#Comment_10957 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10957#Comment_10957 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 06:32:17 -0800 Andrew Stacey José: I wasn't sure. My point, nonetheless, was that reconfiguring one's keyboard to a more suitable TeX-mode needn't involve a great deal of relearning. However, this isn't the place to go into it in detail: I wrote quite an extensive answer at the tex.SX question I linked to (including what, for me, was the killer reason to reconfigure). Indeed, I now have three keyboard layouts: "normal", "TeX", and "bokmål", for when I'm typing in the corresponding language. So long as I remember which I'm in, I find that the "finger memory" works just fine. For example, right now I'm in "TeX mode" so typing \usepackage{lipsum} is as easy as \pi, but typing 123 requires the shift key.

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José Figueroa comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10956) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10956#Comment_10956 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10956#Comment_10956 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 06:01:49 -0800 José Figueroa Andrew: I was using QWERTY as a generic name for the "standard" such keyboard. I agree that most of the pain comes from non-letters. I've been hesitant to remap the keyboard for a number of reasons, but perhaps I should give it a try.

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Andrew Stacey comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10955) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10955#Comment_10955 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10955#Comment_10955 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 05:08:31 -0800 Andrew Stacey Since xkcd is unlinkable, I'll go to the opposite extreme and link to this tex.SX question just in case anyone seriously wants to know about reconfiguring their keyboard more appropriately for TeX. And I would say that Jose's comment about QWERTY-synapses isn't so relevant as most reconfigurations don't touch the letter keys, just the numbers and symbols which (I found) aren't so hard-wired into the brain.

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José Figueroa comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10954) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10954#Comment_10954 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10954#Comment_10954 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 05:00:25 -0800 José Figueroa @Willie: I would link to the obligatory xkcd comic now, but I think that particular comic has been "overlinked" already...

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WillieWong comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10953) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10953#Comment_10953 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10953#Comment_10953 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 04:49:41 -0800 WillieWong Well, having emacs hardwired in the brain is not that difficult, you just need to hit C-x M-c M-cybernetic_implant...

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José Figueroa comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10952) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10952#Comment_10952 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10952#Comment_10952 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 04:28:57 -0800 José Figueroa

Doesn't everyone have their keyboard configured to make TeX easier to type?

The problem is not configuring the keyboard, but reconfiguring the neural synapses after years of using QWERTY keyboards. Having said that, Emacs makes it virtually painless to type (LaTeX) code and luckily I have emacs hardwired in the brain :)

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Andrew Stacey comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10950) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10950#Comment_10950 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10950#Comment_10950 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 03:35:47 -0800 Andrew Stacey (I'm going to have a look at the MathJaX documentation before commenting any further. It depends on whether the documentation is, as Harald suggests, focussed on the differences between MJ and LaTeX, or is purely about MathJaX as a standalone application. I freely admit that I know very little about MathJaX, being convinced that the best solutions are server-side, not client-side - one of the reasons being that feature-creap (such as adding extra macros) makes a big difference when done client-side but almost no difference server-side.)

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WillieWong comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10949) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10949#Comment_10949 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10949#Comment_10949 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 03:34:56 -0800 WillieWong To second Harald's remark: while I've never typed \mathbb without braces, I've always typed \frac1p without the braces. And also usually $\hat\alpha$ etc when it comes to Greek letters. So at least anecdotally the MathJax behaviour reflects normal LaTeX usage.

I do think Andrew's point about speed is a very valid one. Every once in a while MathJax hangs so long that Firefox wonders aloud whether the script has stopped responding; I really don't want it to happen even more often.

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Harald Hanche-Olsen comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10948) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10948#Comment_10948 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10948#Comment_10948 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 02:54:54 -0800 Harald Hanche-Olsen I am pretty sure I have been typing stuff like \frac 1n on MO without thinking much about it. And I suspect that enough people are used to such shortcuts that for mathjax to ignore this aspect of TeX's macro argument parsing would border on the perverse. Any documentation on mathjax should focus on the differences between mathjax and latex, not the similarities.

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AgCl_ comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10947) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10947#Comment_10947 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10947#Comment_10947 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 02:42:50 -0800 AgCl_ Andrew Stacey comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10946) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10946#Comment_10946 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10946#Comment_10946 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 02:36:58 -0800 Andrew Stacey I'd still like to have something from the official documentation since (unlikely though this is) if it's undocumented then it might disappear in a future version.

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AgCl_ comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10945) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10945#Comment_10945 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10945#Comment_10945 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 02:18:06 -0800 AgCl_
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/20144/
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/36976
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/23098/
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/22140/

(These questions have instances of this in their titles. Latex sources can be seen by right clicking on the equations.) ]]>
Harald Hanche-Olsen comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10944) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10944#Comment_10944 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10944#Comment_10944 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 00:05:26 -0800 Harald Hanche-Olsen If we go for #3, I think I'd prefer the \ZZ style for blackboard bold, since it mimics the way we write these. (I have recently switched from \bbZ in my own writing.)

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Andrew Stacey comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10943) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10943#Comment_10943 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10943#Comment_10943 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 00:00:04 -0800 Andrew Stacey My name was invoked and, like the incantation, draws me hence.

I'd like a speed test before the decision between 2 and 3 is made. I suspect that either possible implementation of 3 (that Scott mentions) will be significantly slower than 2. MathJaX is not so fast that it is unnoticeable, I still load a page, watch all the squiggles disappear, and slowly reappear as rendered mathematics. If the shortcuts significantly add to the page load, I would argue against them. Assuming that MathJaX behaves like LaTeX and that braces are not required except for grouping (can someone confirm that this is indeed the case? And point to the relevant piece of MathJaX documentation? Apologies to AgCl for doubting, but given that I doubt he/she was named "Silver Chloride" then I would like more evidence than anon's word.), then there is hardly any difference between \bb Z and \bbZ. One could avoid the confusion over \bf by defining it to be \mbf, but I wouldn't worry about the confusion too much as there are enough differences between what one types here and normal LaTeX that everyone should be on their guard for discrepancies. It's not as if you can take an answer here and send it straight to tex without any post-processing.

(Not that typing braces should be of any discombobulation. Doesn't everyone have their keyboard configured to make TeX easier to type?)

As to the debate between 𝑹 and ℝ, I find the latter much easier to distinguish from surrounding text. It is much easier for me to see that ℝ is something special, especially if I want to emphasise that it is the reals 𝑹 and not the integers 𝒁 (compare with: reals ℝ and not the integers ℤ.)

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Cam McLeman comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10941) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10941#Comment_10941 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10941#Comment_10941 Sun, 21 Nov 2010 20:00:54 -0800 Cam McLeman +1 AgCl!

Also, agree with #3 for David's reason.

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AgCl_ comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10937) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10937#Comment_10937 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10937#Comment_10937 Sun, 21 Nov 2010 18:08:59 -0800 AgCl_ Harry Gindi comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10934) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10934#Comment_10934 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10934#Comment_10934 Sun, 21 Nov 2010 17:38:13 -0800 Harry Gindi Thanks, AgCl! That's really useful to know, actually.

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AgCl_ comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10933) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10933#Comment_10933 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10933#Comment_10933 Sun, 21 Nov 2010 17:37:16 -0800 AgCl_ Harry Gindi comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10932) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10932#Comment_10932 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10932#Comment_10932 Sun, 21 Nov 2010 17:36:14 -0800 Harry Gindi Mark, Bourbaki used \bf{R} for the reals in 1930-something. That's standard enough for me!

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Mark Meckes comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10930) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10930#Comment_10930 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10930#Comment_10930 Sun, 21 Nov 2010 17:28:35 -0800 Mark Meckes Lenstra is certainly right about the historical origin of mathbb, but I don't think \mathbf{R} was ever really standard for the reals. I've seen a number of old texts and papers that denoted them by (italic) R, E^1, or even X.

Incidentally, it seems we've already moved past any suggestion of defining meanings for all of \A,...,\Z, but in case it comes up it should be pointed out that some of those (\P and \L for at least) are already defined in LaTeX.

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Anton Geraschenko comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10928) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10928#Comment_10928 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10928#Comment_10928 Sun, 21 Nov 2010 16:35:48 -0800 Anton Geraschenko

On another matter, is it correct that those of us who never made the transition from Plain TeX to LaTeX can use \def where it has been suggested to use \newcommand?

Nope, \def won't work. The preview is accurate, so you should be able to determine what will work before actually posting.

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Harry Gindi comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10927) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10927#Comment_10927 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10927#Comment_10927 Sun, 21 Nov 2010 16:15:31 -0800 Harry Gindi @José: I'm saying that I read that Bourbaki was opposed (for the reason Kevin Buzzard noted) to writing \bf{R} as \bb{R} in print. It wasn't at all a matter of technology.

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Gerry Myerson comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10922) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10922#Comment_10922 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10922#Comment_10922 Sun, 21 Nov 2010 15:17:47 -0800 Gerry Myerson Kevin Walker comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10920) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10920#Comment_10920 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10920#Comment_10920 Sun, 21 Nov 2010 14:49:11 -0800 Kevin Walker
And I agree with José about \mathbb{R} vs \mathbf{R}. There aren't enough symbols to go around, so using \mathbb{R} for the reals frees up \mathbf{R} for other purposes. On the rare occasions I come across \mathbf{R} for the reals, it strikes me as old-fashioned and a little jarring. ]]>
David Speyer comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10919) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10919#Comment_10919 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10919#Comment_10919 Sun, 21 Nov 2010 14:36:54 -0800 David Speyer Unless it will slow down page loading times, I vote for 3 on the grounds of principle of least surprise. Think how annoying it will be if you've successfully typed \bbZ, \bbQ, \bbC and \bbN, only to discover that our admins thought \bbA wouldn't be needed.

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José Figueroa comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10918) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10918#Comment_10918 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10918#Comment_10918 Sun, 21 Nov 2010 14:31:52 -0800 José Figueroa @Kevin, Harry: I don't believe that there is anything 'canonical' about \mathbf{R} for the real numbers. This choice might simply be a reflection of the available technology: perhaps it was easier to use \mathbf{R} than \mathbb{R} in the days before computer typography simply because bold face fonts existed, whereas blackboard bold fonts did not. (Recall that fonts then were pieces of metal, not computer files!)

I see no reason to remain faithful to compromises made because of inadequate technology. It's enough that I have to type on a QWERTY keyboard :)

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Harry Gindi comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10917) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10917#Comment_10917 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10917#Comment_10917 Sun, 21 Nov 2010 14:25:15 -0800 Harry Gindi @Kevin: Didn't Weil or Dieudonné say something similar (and that's why Bourbaki uses boldface instead)?

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José Figueroa comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10914) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10914#Comment_10914 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10914#Comment_10914 Sun, 21 Nov 2010 13:12:06 -0800 José Figueroa @Kevin: I heard the story before -- but I just happen to like blackboard bold!

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Kevin Buzzard comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10912) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10912#Comment_10912 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10912#Comment_10912 Sun, 21 Nov 2010 13:04:53 -0800 Kevin Buzzard Kevin Buzzard comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10911) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10911#Comment_10911 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10911#Comment_10911 Sun, 21 Nov 2010 13:00:52 -0800 Kevin Buzzard Kevin Buzzard comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10910) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10910#Comment_10910 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10910#Comment_10910 Sun, 21 Nov 2010 12:57:27 -0800 Kevin Buzzard
But to be honest, knowing that newcommand works is already a great help, because at least I can use that on long answers where I was in the past typing mathbf lots and lots of times.

Thanks (esp to Anton)! ]]>
WillieWong comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10902) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10902#Comment_10902 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10902#Comment_10902 Sun, 21 Nov 2010 10:28:34 -0800 WillieWong I vote for a mixture of 1) and 2), but against 3).

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Scott Morrison comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10901) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10901#Comment_10901 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10901#Comment_10901 Sun, 21 Nov 2010 09:17:57 -0800 Scott Morrison Okay, sorry, to clarify the points above:

As Anton points out, you can just use \newcommand{} as you please, at a per post level. Beyond that, we can install macros in a magic configuration file (that is, when the HTML that we serve tells your browser to load the MathJax library, we can pass it some configuration information, including new macros).

Now, there are I think three main proposals for what those macros should be:

  1. Only a handful of macros, for the most common bold face letters, e.g. \Z for \mathbb{Z}.
  2. Abbreviations for the commands \mathbb, etc. so you could type \bb Z instead of \mathbb{Z}. We'd also do this for \mathbf, \mathcal, and a few others.
  3. Abbreviations for the whole alphabet in various variations, so you could type \bbZ instead of \mathbb{Z}.

Some comments:

  1. is super easy to implement, but might contradict "the principle of least surprise", as people won't know which letters are provided.
  2. is also easy to implement. There's slight danger here, as some of the obvious contractions, e.g. \bf, might not play well with TeX (as opposed to LaTeX). (I don't actually know whether this is really a problem or not.)
  3. is slightly more complicated to implement; we need to either list lots of new macros, or include a macro that lets you apply a function to everything in a list, e.g. here, and then use that.

One advantage of 2) over 3) is that you can see type \bb{AB}, whereas for 3) you'd have to type \bbA\bbB.

Nevertheless, 3) is my preferred option, mostly because it's what I'm used to at home! :-)

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Harry Gindi comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10900) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10900#Comment_10900 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10900#Comment_10900 Sun, 21 Nov 2010 05:20:28 -0800 Harry Gindi @Kevin: Regarding number four on your list, that's about right.

I was suggesting shorthand names for the fonts (which are essentially the same as before, just without the math- prefix). I think I got most of the important ones, but if I remember correctly, for some reason, we don't have rsfs installed (I think Andrew Stacey complained when we discussed it because it might increase loading times or something). Could we also have rsfs, Anton?

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Kevin Buzzard comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10899) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10899#Comment_10899 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10899#Comment_10899 Sun, 21 Nov 2010 01:00:09 -0800 Kevin Buzzard Kevin Buzzard comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10898) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10898#Comment_10898 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10898#Comment_10898 Sun, 21 Nov 2010 00:52:40 -0800 Kevin Buzzard
(1) This was certainly not meant to become some debate about whether \Z should mean bbZ or bfZ! Of course that is an issue if things are resolved server-side, but it's not a big one: I would still be much happier typing \ZZ or \bfZ than \mathbf{Z}.

(2) Jose/Scott: I wish I understood your answer. I can see that MathJax will "let me do what I want", but I know nothing about mathjax so do not understand whether the page you point to is saying "type this at the start of every comment" or "put these lines into a magic configuration file" or what. If you could clarify this for me I would be very happy! If I'm supposed to cut and paste an incantation before every comment (which I think is what Anton is suggesting) then that's all well and good, but it might eat in to my precious 600 characters in an unpleasant way---I already find myself missingoutspacesandabbrvtngwrds when trying to squeeze my thoughts into those 600 chars sometimes.

(3) Gerald: I am precisely asking the details of a sensible way of how to do this :-) [rather than muddling along trying to solve the problem myself]

(4) Harry gives a suggestion which I don't understand, and Scott says he's happy enough with it. Can someone clarify what the suggestion is? Aah---is Harry suggesting more potential server-side macros, rather than telling me another way of doing mathbf? And Scott is suggesting that these macros seem uncontroversially-named? ]]>
Harry Gindi comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10897) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10897#Comment_10897 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10897#Comment_10897 Sat, 20 Nov 2010 23:22:17 -0800 Harry Gindi Is that new with MathJax? If I remember correctly, that wasn't possible in jsMath.

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Anton Geraschenko comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10896) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10896#Comment_10896 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10896#Comment_10896 Sat, 20 Nov 2010 22:43:17 -0800 Anton Geraschenko I never liked whole alphabets of abbreviations, but I do think it makes sense to define at least a handful of standard macros.

In addition to that, I'll let you in on a secret: you can define your own macros within a post. For example, if you're typing a lot of \mathbb{Z}'s in a given question/answer, you can do it like this:

$\newcommand{\Z}{\mathbb{Z}}$ Now I can type things like $\Z$ and $\Z/p\Z$ easily!

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José Figueroa comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10895) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10895#Comment_10895 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10895#Comment_10895 Sat, 20 Nov 2010 20:04:59 -0800 José Figueroa Actually, since I use Chrome with the "Edit with Emacs" extension most of the time, I could do this client-side as well, as suggested by Gerald Edgar above. So, whereas selfishly I would like to push my own macros, in reality I'm happy for any (short) macros to be implemented.

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Tom Church comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10894) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10894#Comment_10894 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10894#Comment_10894 Sat, 20 Nov 2010 19:45:28 -0800 Tom Church José Figueroa comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10893) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10893#Comment_10893 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10893#Comment_10893 Sat, 20 Nov 2010 18:16:32 -0800 José Figueroa How about \Z for \mathbf{Z} and \ZZ for \mathbb{Z}, etc... ?

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Zev Chonoles comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10892) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10892#Comment_10892 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10892#Comment_10892 Sat, 20 Nov 2010 18:09:19 -0800 Zev Chonoles If we decide to define macros for letters one at a time, maybe we should have a poll on which one we choose?

In this particular case, another question would be what to output: \mathbf{Z} or \mathbb{Z} (I use \Z for \mathbb{Z}). Maybe only shortening the commands, as per Harry's suggestion, would be fairer - neither \mathbf nor \mathbb would be given preference by having the macro use it.

Also: \opn for \operatorname ?

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Scott Morrison comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10891) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10891#Comment_10891 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10891#Comment_10891 Sat, 20 Nov 2010 17:48:19 -0800 Scott Morrison The instructions for doing so are here. It seems we can write simple macros easily enough.

I'm happy enough with Harry's suggestion. Another possiblity is to define whole alphabets of abbreviations, e.g. \bbA for a blackboard bold A, \cB for a caligraphic B, etc.

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geraldedgar comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10890) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10890#Comment_10890 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10890#Comment_10890 Sat, 20 Nov 2010 17:41:47 -0800 geraldedgar José Figueroa comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10889) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10889#Comment_10889 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10889#Comment_10889 Sat, 20 Nov 2010 17:40:57 -0800 José Figueroa Here's the relevant MathJax documentation page: http://www.mathjax.org/resources/docs/?options/TeX.html#configure-tex

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Pete L. Clark comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10888) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10888#Comment_10888 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10888#Comment_10888 Sat, 20 Nov 2010 17:22:12 -0800 Pete L. Clark And one more +1. It's funny that it took more than a year to get to this point!

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WillieWong comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10887) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10887#Comment_10887 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10887#Comment_10887 Sat, 20 Nov 2010 17:07:44 -0800 WillieWong I think this maybe a good idea, but if our benevolent overlords decide to do this, can they also please document the short-hands in the FAQ? Like Jose said, everyone has his favourite abbreviations. I use \Intgr \Nat \Real for what Kevin would probably call \Z, \N, and \R.

Also +1 Harry's suggestion, as long as those don't collide with something already defined. (\bf of course is problematic in plain LaTeX, but maybe okay within the limited confines of MathJax?)

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Harry Gindi comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10886) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10886#Comment_10886 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10886#Comment_10886 Sat, 20 Nov 2010 16:38:03 -0800 Harry Gindi \bf, \cal, \bb, \frak, \scr?

Also, could we have an alias for \operatorname? Every time I type it, my soul is crushed a little more.

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CSiegel comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10885) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10885#Comment_10885 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10885#Comment_10885 Sat, 20 Nov 2010 16:30:22 -0800 CSiegel José Figueroa comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10883) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10883#Comment_10883 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10883#Comment_10883 Sat, 20 Nov 2010 15:07:18 -0800 José Figueroa +1 as well. This is certainly possible with MathJax... I have been meaning to ask for this feature, but I was undecided since everyone has their favourite macros -- I certainly have mine -- and chances are they are all different. So it's not clear what is bestter: keep typing \mathbb{Z} or having to get used to some other non-canonical abbreviation. (Mine, for the record, is \ZZ.)

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Andy Putman comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10882) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10882#Comment_10882 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10882#Comment_10882 Sat, 20 Nov 2010 14:52:58 -0800 Andy Putman Kevin Buzzard comments on "sick of typing mathbf/mathbb" (10881) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10881#Comment_10881 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/785/sick-of-typing-mathbfmathbb/?Focus=10881#Comment_10881 Sat, 20 Nov 2010 14:13:26 -0800 Kevin Buzzard