tea.mathoverflow.net - Discussion Feed (Dispensing psychological advice?) Sun, 04 Nov 2018 13:42:59 -0800 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.1.9 & Feed Publisher Anweshi comments on "Dispensing psychological advice?" (1424) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1424#Comment_1424 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1424#Comment_1424 Mon, 04 Jan 2010 14:28:37 -0800 Anweshi
Also mention that there are people called moderators, and even other members here, who might question the purity of the post. And that moderators are busy people with a life of their own; and indeed they are serious researchers who are taking time away from their main work to moderate here, and you should try to make their life easier with only serious questions. ]]>
Ilya Nikokoshev comments on "Dispensing psychological advice?" (1423) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1423#Comment_1423 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1423#Comment_1423 Mon, 04 Jan 2010 14:16:57 -0800 Ilya Nikokoshev

I should be the last person to make suggestions on FAQ improvement

Actually, since your conception of MO was just few days ago based only on the FAQ, this makes you one of the few people competent to make suggestions to the document.

How do u write something in bold?

I just looked the FAQ and, indeed, it's not there (you see, I was completely sure it's there, another good example of how a person who spent a lot time on the site perceives documentation). Anyway, the formatting reference appears on the side when you edit question or answer. Not all will work on meta, though.

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Anweshi comments on "Dispensing psychological advice?" (1419) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1419#Comment_1419 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1419#Comment_1419 Mon, 04 Jan 2010 13:04:28 -0800 Anweshi Anweshi comments on "Dispensing psychological advice?" (1418) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1418#Comment_1418 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1418#Comment_1418 Mon, 04 Jan 2010 13:01:21 -0800 Anweshi
This is after all the truth, right? This is for struggling graduate students looking for clarification, senior mathematicians to find a broader audience for sharing their expertise, and in general various people trying to get their confusions cleared, in their day-to-day work. In other words, this site is for serious research, and is no joke. This restriction could be reflected in the FAQ, and the people who want a broader forum might be redirected to sci.math. research ...

Of course, I am a newbie, so I should be the last person to make suggestions on FAQ improvement. I just spoke on the basis of the "warm welcome" I was given here.. :) .. ]]>
Ilya Nikokoshev comments on "Dispensing psychological advice?" (1417) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1417#Comment_1417 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1417#Comment_1417 Mon, 04 Jan 2010 12:42:50 -0800 Ilya Nikokoshev @Ansari, maybe somebody should have said it: welcome to the community! Now, as you see, we're not some evil monsters from a distant galaxy who just want to hurt feelings of others, but, rather, real people who try to balance different interests, sometimes rather impolitely and not always consistently.

I must say, I'm not sure what "essential" means: to my knowledge, no loss of life or property would result from not asking 99.99% math questions. Still, there is the idea that you're supposed to do enough work before posting to make question as good as you can. And if you're posting a lot of questions, people will not be tolerating minor mistakes or vague formulations that they would be happy to correct if you take it one at a time.

By the way, how would you improve the FAQ so that it reflects correctly whatever is current policy?

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Ben Webster comments on "Dispensing psychological advice?" (1416) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1416#Comment_1416 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1416#Comment_1416 Mon, 04 Jan 2010 12:30:42 -0800 Ben Webster That sounds about right to me. I'm not sure that "ask only the really essential questions" is exactly the guideline we had in mind; it could be worth asking a pretty minor question if it's answer is hard to find anywhere else. A lot of it is just making sure you only ask questions you've thought carefully about, and writing them in such a way that it is clear you've thought carefully.

The other thing to keep in mind is that this is a young site. We're still having an ongoing discussion about what kind of questions are right for the site. Every time somebody tries a new kind of question (which you did), we have to have a internal discussion about whether it's right for the site. It probably seems a little raucous if you're not used to the site, but don't take it too personally.

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Harry Gindi comments on "Dispensing psychological advice?" (1415) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1415#Comment_1415 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1415#Comment_1415 Mon, 04 Jan 2010 12:24:00 -0800 Harry Gindi Anweshi comments on "Dispensing psychological advice?" (1410) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1410#Comment_1410 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1410#Comment_1410 Mon, 04 Jan 2010 10:49:33 -0800 Anweshi
So, what do I do? Let me ask a question .. The notice on the top says, new here? Red the FAQ. So I read the FAQ. And there is this question of my poor friend undergoing a bad situation, which had been uppermost in my mind for some time. I think, it passes the the criterion "Is this of interest to mathematicians", given there in bold letters. So I ask. And I end in a quagmire. I am suddenly pressed on by so many people, and I defend myself like the devil, bewildered about what on earth happened, what did I do wrong. .

Now after 2-3 days of keeping around here, I understand more of this site .. And people's desire to see good quality questions. And I understand that I sidetracked. And I understand why I got criticized. All this would not have happened if I had first spent some 2 or 3 days in this website. But I jumped the gun and asked the first question which came to my mind. Indeed, I asked quite a few questions on the following day, and got banned for the same. Thus I learned, I must think over and ask only really essential questions.

Is that right? Have I understood correctly? ]]>
Harry Gindi comments on "Dispensing psychological advice?" (1387) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1387#Comment_1387 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1387#Comment_1387 Sat, 02 Jan 2010 23:16:22 -0800 Harry Gindi Anweshi comments on "Dispensing psychological advice?" (1364) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1364#Comment_1364 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1364#Comment_1364 Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:12:11 -0800 Anweshi Anton Geraschenko comments on "Dispensing psychological advice?" (1361) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1361#Comment_1361 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1361#Comment_1361 Sat, 02 Jan 2010 00:18:22 -0800 Anton Geraschenko Sorry I'm so late to the party. I need to go to bed, and I feel like I can't string words together very well right now, so I'll just rattle off whatever thoughts I have right now.

I feel like the question should stay open, partially because there isn't a better place for it and it's not too bad for MO, and partially because it's received such an enthusiastic response. But I don't think there should be something in the FAQ that dictates it. It's genuinely borderline and such questions are a rare enough occurrence that it would be foolish to make policy about it. If something falls outside of policy, it may mean that it needs special attention, not that there needs to be more policy to handle it, and I feel like this is such a situation. I do like the idea of linking to other career advice pages in the FAQ, so that career advice questions appear on MO if there really isn't a better place for them. If I don't do it soon, please remind me to.

The question was made CW pretty quickly and a thread was opened here. It could have gone more smoothly if the question was CW from the get-go and written to provide a sharper question (I realize this is hard to do without revealing private information), but I'm very happy about how it was handled. I hit the post with the wiki hammer (converting all existing answers to wiki).

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Harry Gindi comments on "Dispensing psychological advice?" (1357) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1357#Comment_1357 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1357#Comment_1357 Fri, 01 Jan 2010 20:05:32 -0800 Harry Gindi Anweshi comments on "Dispensing psychological advice?" (1356) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1356#Comment_1356 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1356#Comment_1356 Fri, 01 Jan 2010 19:59:56 -0800 Anweshi Qiaochu Yuan comments on "Dispensing psychological advice?" (1355) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1355#Comment_1355 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1355#Comment_1355 Fri, 01 Jan 2010 19:19:05 -0800 Qiaochu Yuan
So much for general comments. As for my own personal opinion, I think this question deserves a different kind of attention than MO can give it. Any given answer to this question should be evaluated for its relevance to the particular situation your friend finds him/herself in, and ideally there should be a lot of discussion back and forth. This is not what MO is for. That kind of discussion would work better in the blog or forum format, or perhaps (if you really have serious concerns about your friend) in private communication with a trusted advisor.

You mentioned something about allowing other math education questions. I do not think this is a math education question; abstractly, the same kind of problem might be faced by students in a wide variety of fields, and concretely, this is about your friend's life path, not about his education. In other words, I think this question is either too general or too specific (depending on how you phrase it) to be appropriate for MO. ]]>
Anweshi comments on "Dispensing psychological advice?" (1354) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1354#Comment_1354 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1354#Comment_1354 Fri, 01 Jan 2010 19:13:47 -0800 Anweshi Harrison Brown comments on "Dispensing psychological advice?" (1353) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1353#Comment_1353 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1353#Comment_1353 Fri, 01 Jan 2010 19:10:11 -0800 Harrison Brown Ilya Nikokoshev comments on "Dispensing psychological advice?" (1352) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1352#Comment_1352 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1352#Comment_1352 Fri, 01 Jan 2010 19:02:58 -0800 Ilya Nikokoshev Then is absolutely belongs to answers! Indeed, now as I remember the reference, I'd gladly upvote it were it in the answers list :)

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Harry Gindi comments on "Dispensing psychological advice?" (1351) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1351#Comment_1351 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1351#Comment_1351 Fri, 01 Jan 2010 19:00:15 -0800 Harry Gindi
"I may add that they are particularly unlikely to present themselves to a mathematician. It is usual to exaggerate rather grossly the differences between the mental processes of mathematicians and other people, but it is undeniable that a gift for mathematics is one of the most specialized talents, and that mathematicians as a class are not particularly distinguished for general ability or versatility. If a man is in any sense a real mathematician, then it is a hundred to one that his mathematics will be far better than anything else he can do, and that he would be silly if he surrendered any decent opportunity of exercising his one talent in order to do undistinguished work in other fields. Such a sacrifice could be justified only by economic necessity or age." ]]>
Ilya Nikokoshev comments on "Dispensing psychological advice?" (1350) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1350#Comment_1350 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1350#Comment_1350 Fri, 01 Jan 2010 18:59:34 -0800 Ilya Nikokoshev @Harry,

"Imagine doing something else and then realize how terrible you'd be at it." - whether it's a joke or not (it sounds like a half-answer half-joke), I don't see why it should be in the comments. But it would fit answers list well.

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Harry Gindi comments on "Dispensing psychological advice?" (1349) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1349#Comment_1349 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1349#Comment_1349 Fri, 01 Jan 2010 18:56:41 -0800 Harry Gindi
@Ilya, which joke are you talking about? The one about "smooth models"? ]]>
Anweshi comments on "Dispensing psychological advice?" (1348) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1348#Comment_1348 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1348#Comment_1348 Fri, 01 Jan 2010 18:52:22 -0800 Anweshi Anweshi comments on "Dispensing psychological advice?" (1347) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1347#Comment_1347 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1347#Comment_1347 Fri, 01 Jan 2010 18:49:40 -0800 Anweshi
I am unable to provide more background, without revealing details that should really kept private within my own school. I would really have liked to; but I am helpless. This is a public forum.

@Harrison Brown. You could have added it as an answer to the post, rather than a comment in this meta. ]]>
Harrison Brown comments on "Dispensing psychological advice?" (1346) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1346#Comment_1346 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1346#Comment_1346 Fri, 01 Jan 2010 18:37:06 -0800 Harrison Brown
I don't think there's an easy solution to this problem, but I do have one recommendation: Link Terry Tao's excellent career advice page from the FAQ. ]]>
Ilya Nikokoshev comments on "Dispensing psychological advice?" (1345) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1345#Comment_1345 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1345#Comment_1345 Fri, 01 Jan 2010 18:26:44 -0800 Ilya Nikokoshev I think I'll give a bit of advice. Forgive me all please if it sounds even a bit offensive -- it shouldn't.

[lecture mode on]

@Ben, your idea to start a discussion on Meta is perfect, but I think one should also always post this in comments. Otherwise, it's easy to miss the fact.

@Anweshi, you really should have done your homework on why some questions are met with downvotes and discussion. Simply put, you should have spent a bit more time reading previous questions and meta threads. Then you would do the same thing -- post the question -- but you would know to (1) make it concise and provide background (2) make it Community Wiki (3) find the previous question and provide a link to it (4) meet downotes stoically and take all discussion to meta.

If you did that, you post would have a high chance of success. Some people might think it's not appropriate, but many people, me included, won't. In fact, put correctly, it's a wondeful question which could relate to many people.

(update for those who read after a while: I think this question indeed has evolved over time into a form where it benefits everyone)

@Qiaochu Yuan -- it's really a good idea to provide more info why you think question is not appropriate when the person is a newbie, especially in the case like this where a person has clearly read the FAQ but understands it differently.

@Harry -- please, let's not make jokes as a comment. If you post it as an answer, you can be up/downvoted, the discussion about your joke can continue there, and the valuable real estate below the post can be used for more important purposes.

@everyone -- Well, I personally think our FAQ should be improved. I gave some examples why I think it is confusing in this meta post. Whatever policies we currently have, it's better to reflect them correctly in the only document many people see.

[lecture mode off]. Hope everybody's ok with this.

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Ben Webster comments on "Dispensing psychological advice?" (1343) http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1343#Comment_1343 http://mathoverflow.tqft.net/discussion/125/dispensing-psychological-advice/?Focus=1343#Comment_1343 Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:48:12 -0800 Ben Webster Another pretty borderline question. While I sympathize with the questioner's desire to help his friend, I'm not sure we're the right people to ask, or that this is the right place to do it.

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