tea.mathoverflow.net - Discussion Feed (Non-technical questions about education and teaching methods)

gilkalai comments on "Non-technical questions about education and teaching methods" (9009)

gilkalai — Mon, 13 Sep 2010 12:13:29 -0700

Actually the two questions discussed here are quite good examples of important distinctions regarding accepting or closing question.
The first question

http://mathoverflow.net/questions/19957/how-do-you-approach-your-childs-math-education

is a question of very good academic merit which is of interest to mathematicians and close to mathematics. It was a mistake to close it.
In addition to its intrinsic value it also attracted quite a few good answers, 29 up votes (which is in the top 1% I suppose), it was a favourite of 30 users (which is in the top 0.5%) . In these circumstances I think it is wrong and perhaps even inappropriate to close it. Note that most questions that are not technical questions in pure math may have some subjective aspects but still they can be very good. In this case, the answers were not argumentative.

The second question has very little academic merit, It was voted down by a few users, and it seems perfectly reasonable to close it.

Dan Brumleve comments on "Non-technical questions about education and teaching methods" (8949)

Dan Brumleve — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 20:40:13 -0700

Will, that's a great idea, I will do that soon after I figure it out.

Will Jagy comments on "Non-technical questions about education and teaching methods" (8948)

Will Jagy — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 20:38:39 -0700

Dan, I am satisfied that the intentions of the person who asked the more recent question are not good. This is shown by posting argumentative questions which are closed and then quickly deleted, I think deleted by the OP.

As you have what are apparently the right motives, one option you have is to try out some wording here on this Meta thread. These are read regularly by several dozen users, and the overlap with the set of people with the power to vote to close a question is large.

So, put a first draft on this thread and when enough people say it is a good question for the main site go ahead and post it. If there is no such wording, at least the discussion is likely to be a bit more thoughtful than MO comments, which have a size limit.

Dan Brumleve comments on "Non-technical questions about education and teaching methods" (8946)

Dan Brumleve — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 19:46:07 -0700

Yemon and jbl, I agree that the question I answered is a poor question. The value of this topic is better demonstrated by the first question (a good one) which has received 29 up-votes despite also being closed. But I still think that the question I answered has certain aspects which are relevant to the professional mathematical community (e.g. teachers) as well as a wider audience. I would post a similar question in my own words, but I do not wish to be jeered by anyone (not referring to either of you), and I don't understand the guidelines well enough to predict how such a question will be received here. I will certainly make my question CW, but I would like my questions to remain open until I accept an answer or waive a bounty.

jbl comments on "Non-technical questions about education and teaching methods" (8942)

jbl — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 14:20:27 -0700

Hi Dan,

I'd like to briefly explain why I commented as I did:

1) The question showed little evidence of being carefully thought-out -- the body of the question wasn't actually a question. I spend some time on Art of Problem Solving, and this question resembles the more mediocre questions posted there by high school students. (This sense is strengthened by Yemon's observation.)

2) This is a discussion question. There is no definitive answer, merely personal opinions, and the appropriate way to discuss such a question involves substantial interaction among answerers.

3) This question has very little to do with mathematics or mathematics education.

By the way, I think your answer is completely reasonable, and (unlike with homework questions) I have no problem with it having gotten in before the question was closed. But fundamentally I don't think this question is "of interest to mathematicians."

Yemon Choi comments on "Non-technical questions about education and teaching methods" (8935)

Yemon Choi — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 11:50:07 -0700

Is it worth noting that the poster of the original question followed it up with some apparently insincere time-wasting questions? [Update: these seem to have since been deleted.]

Dan Brumleve comments on "Non-technical questions about education and teaching methods" (8923)

Dan Brumleve — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 23:10:29 -0700

Pete,

I agree that CW would have been a better solution than closing in both cases. (As far as I understand the distinction, CW means that no reputation will be awarded for answers or comments, and closing means that no further answers are permitted.)

The questions are different but I don't believe either should have been closed. I haven't sensed any oligarchy nor its rate of change, but to whatever extent the charter supports professional development and outreach between professionals and amateurs, I feel that both questions are worthy of being open to new answers.

I do not agree that your answer is necessarily the only reasonable one. Mine is also reasonable and is not identical, and everyone can verify to some degree the authority of the source. [All I mean by this is that I have little teaching experience, I presume less than most other contributors to this site, and on that basis I feel awkward being the only one permitted to answer this question and receive reputation-giving up-votes.] It is not as good a question as the other but why close either?

Pete L. Clark comments on "Non-technical questions about education and teaching methods" (8921)

Pete L. Clark — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 22:47:57 -0700

@jdb: I think part of the point here is that there aren't any non-subjective answers to this question, since the question is inherently subjective. It certainly should have been made community wiki, but it wasn't.

I think there are a lot differences between this question and the children's education question you linked. For instance, not to be discounted is that the children's ed question was asked several months ago. The oligarchy of users who can vote to close is not the same group now as it was in April, and it seems that there is less tolerance for such non-technical questions than there was before. Maybe this is good and maybe it's bad, but the inconsistency isn't itself objectionable: it's a natural outcome of the system.

But aside from that, I read the children's question as an earnest plea for specific information. Probably a lot of people feel passionately about this question and feel that there is a lot at stake here. In contrast, this question has virtually nothing at stake. Isn't the only reasonable answer "Yes, you can read math books any way you want, and you should do so in the way that works best for you"? The disadvantages to skipping ahead are obvious -- you might have missed something by skipping over it, and you might end up having to spend a while flipping through the book to find it or end up reading it from the beginning later on. But that's not my professional opinion, because I don't have a professional opinion on this question: it's just common sense.

Dan Brumleve comments on "Non-technical questions about education and teaching methods" (8917)

Dan Brumleve — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 20:14:37 -0700

Also,

http://mathoverflow.net/questions/38149/is-it-okay-to-read-math-books-out-of-order/

was closed soon after I answered it (from my own somewhat self-congratulating perspective of a person who also enjoys reading mathematics books out-of-order), but I am quite interested to know what professional teachers would have had to say about how "okay" that is. But as long as the question is closed, the only answer is my own subjective and possibly ignorant one.

Dan Brumleve comments on "Non-technical questions about education and teaching methods" (8914)

Dan Brumleve — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 19:53:15 -0700

Are such questions appropriate for this forum? For example,

http://mathoverflow.net/questions/19957/how-do-you-approach-your-childs-math-education

was closed as "subjective and argumentative" but not before receiving 13 insightful answers. There are many
professional teachers in this community and I would be interested in seeing more questions of this type, but
I do not understand the reasons that they are so often deemed inappropriate. It seems to me that these
kinds of questions require a somewhat different standard than more technical or precise questions. What are the
guidelines for posting such questions about teaching and learning methods?