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Is this question acceptable?: What everybody must/should know achievements in 2010 and around

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    • CommentAuthorquid
    • CommentTimeDec 15th 2011 edited
     

    @Vladimir Dotsenko: Thank you for the reply. First, in retrospect, I should have phrased my first comment differently. Sorry about that. Yet, it was indeed at least also trying to understand your point of view (tough to that end a different phrasing without the provocative touch would have been admittedly more productive). And, sure trying to understand the other person's point of view is important. But, perhaps, if I may say so, since you were so far not active on meta (not sure whether you read it), it might also not have been a bad idea to elaborate on your point of view a bit more. There was nothing to understand, it was a general negative statement.

    What I mean is that it is unclear what to you are "questions like this." I can assure you that some people here will understand all five I listed as "questions like this" in this context. Now, after your explanation I/we know that this is in fact not your opinion. Or, when you say that you agree with Ryan that "The reason MO is a success is in part because it has a narrow mission." then it is not clear what this "narrow mission" is in your opinion. The default assumption would be you also share Ryan's opinion on this mission, but from what he tends to say in such discussion I doubt that he will consider 3 of these 5 as fine, and 1 borderline. And which is which? In case at a latter point in time you should have time for further elaboration, I would be interested in it, since your point of view seems not to fall into some of the 'standard categories' on meta-MO and as such would be interesting to have docuemnted in more detail.

    Not to take this thread off-topic, I think a somewhat similar purpose could be served if you could say what exactly it is that you dislike about the current question. Say, that it is 'just yet another list' that it is 'subjective' that it is 'possibly controversial' that it 'could influence hiring decisions' that it is 'useless as the information is readily available elesewhere' to paraphrase some of the objections made so far.

    ADDED: to my considerable embarssement, I notice that I overlooked one short comment of you yesterday in this thread. This makes some of my assertions irrelevant. However, if it is the subjective and argumentive problem it is not clear to me how this question is so much worse than the less subjective and argumentative of 'qualities of a teacher' and 'a single paper everyone should read', at least one of which you (still) consider as at least borderline. But then perhaps even fine as I guess the one described as a bit on the silly side would be cocktail party.

  2.  
    Guys, would not it be a solution to the problems if those who do not want to see such things, would be able not to see them automatically ?

    As far as I understand from Keith's post he blocked category "soft-question" - why this would not be a solution ?
    I guess, that "block" is too soft, since he arrived here - but may be it possible to make "strict blocking" - that if one do not want to see something it will not showed up ?

    PS
    @Keith amused by your Russian and by this optical illusion

    I've seen many but this is most striking.
    When was it created ? If 2010 you must put it as an answer to my question :):):)
  3.  
    Sorry I just included the link but it uploaded the picture automatically,
    but may be it is even better like this.
    PS
    Picture above from Keith's Conrad homepage with the comment:
    "(The figures are not really moving. This is due to Akiyoshi Kitaoka. See here for more information.)"
    • CommentAuthorKConrad
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2011
     
    @Alexander: It is not the case that I have blocked the soft question category.

    Concerning the optical illusion, it appears on Kitaoka's page http://www.ritsumei.ac.jp/~akitaoka/index-e.html and underneath in small type it is indicated that the image is from (no later than) 2003.
  5.  
    @Keith
    What do think: can "blocking" categories be a solution to such problems ? Just "if do not want - do not look" ?
    I understand that problem might not be that simple, but ...

    PS
    Yep, I looked his page - amusing, strange that I did not seen it before.
    • CommentAuthorquid
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2011
     

    I was somewhat in favor of the particular question but am in general rather sceptic towards soft/list and alike. The general problem regarding why just blocking categories is no really solution was discussed on occassion. Opinions are a bit mixed. My opinion is that one main problem is the general 'image' of the site and which audience it (thus) attracts.

    At the moment one can say to somebody, got to www.mathoverflow.net and have a look at front page to see what it is like. Now, if one would start allowing all kinds of things because properly tag people can block it, one would start to explain if you just see the site it does not look good there is all kind of strange stuff. But if you create an account and then in your profie you need just to add this this this and that tag as ignored; and then have an other look it is about alright. Then this could be a problem.

    Also, if there are too many soft questions there is a danger of getting much active audience that is here just for this. This might also cause problems. At the moment, if one does not care about roughly speaking research level math one will rather sooner than later get bored around here and leave, which automatically and non-invasively limits the users group to the intended one.

    Finally, soft questions are more likely to cause controversy in various ways. This would also have been a danger for this one (I thought for this one, one could keep this under control, but I can see why others disagree). This controversy than spills over eg to meta and so on.

  7.  
    @quid Thank you for your answer, I partly agree with your concerns.
    However let me point some objections.

    1) "Front page" - it seems to me easy to control - admins may configure it to exclude such kind of "soft-suspicious or whatever" questions...

    2) "Audience just for this" - that is my point - why we should afraid of this if those who do not like - can block it ?
    I am not sensitive person I will not block anything - if I am not interested I am not looking ...
    I guess some people think like me, but others can block...

    3) "one will rather sooner than later get bored around here and leave"
    well, how many would leave ? Internet, and in particular MO are a kind of drug - not easy to stop :):)
    Also currently - if you need to ask something what is the alternative - sci.math.research ? It is not so cool ...
    My subjective opinion - not many will leave, but of course, I might be wrong...
    Wikipedia - is much more controversy site - but people still there...

    4) "soft questions are more likely to cause controversy in various ways" - yep, that is main problem, seems to me. My question is an example - how easy controversy arise and make people unhappy...

    -------

    Any way it seems to me that the problem not in some logical reason - "influence hiring", "spoiling front-page" - this does not seem to me actual reason. But reason is psychological - people just do not like MO to become "softer", because 1) just do not like 2) they afraid it might spoil it...
    But this is just "subjective and argumentative" opinion. I mean: it might be spoiled - might be not - only God knows - not us....
    But of course if many people think so - then it becomes a reason by itself.
    • CommentAuthorKConrad
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2011
     
    @Alexander: I'm not interested in blocking any particular style of questions right now, and for the most part I do pass by many questions without looking at them.
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    @quid:

    Let me admit that my attempt to express my viewpoint here was a big mistake, and I would try my best to minimise my participation in discussions on meta. I just don't have energy and strength for that. Provocative comments like the first one of yours do not affect me much, but the comment of markvs enthusiastically expanding on that provocative comment (which I accidentally stumbled upon now) made me uncomfortable. If you are interested to know my opinion on appropriateness of those five questions, could you please find a way to ask me about it privately (e-mail or something)? I don't think I want to revive any discussions here.

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