Not signed in (Sign In)

Vanilla 1.1.9 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

  1.  

    Let's calm down a bit... We're still in the process of figuring things out!

  2.  

    @Korepanov -- To be frank, I think we here at MO have been quite patient with you, and you have been rather critical of us, for instance suggesting that MO is a seriously not-serious site that will squelch creativity in young mathematicians. That's insulting to a lot of people.

    The bottom line is that several people here tried to figure out what you meant, and you have insisted on a lack of clarification, that "any connection" would be exactly what you were looking for. Finally you got one response drawing a certain kind of connection, to which you promptly replied "well, anything except THAT".

    If you want people to understand you and communicate with you, you need to meet us a little closer to halfway.

    • CommentAuthorgilkalai
    • CommentTimeJan 6th 2010
     
    @anton, ok if the four questions I mentioned as my own questions regarding fundamental examples, or what precisely is categorification, ot what is an integrable systems follow the guidlines for being specific then I tend to agree with your intentions (but still the wording was not clear, at least not to me). The guidelines are not bad, in fact, as I said above, they are quite good. (But you did ask for feedback...)

    In general, it is very hard to judge (or advice regarding) the quality of a question (or an answer) in a formal context-free way. Also, non optimal (even bad) questions (which can be unfocused or overlly focused on the wrong detail) can still lead to good answers. Of course, nobody has an obligation to asnwer to, or even to spend time thinking about a question of no interest to him/her.

    Overall, while the quality of questions (and answers) vary, there are very rare cases of abuse and people are overall doing their best (and also experiment various ways to use this site) so this is why I think the strong tone is not justified.
    • CommentAuthorEmerton
    • CommentTimeJan 6th 2010
     
    I am a working mathematician, and I watched the site for some time before joining. The site has two attractions for me: there are occasional difficult technical questions that are fun to think about; and there is a chance to answer more general questions from a point of view that I find appealing, but which may not be in the standard references.

    I am sympathetic to Gil Kalai's points, and to Igor Korepanov. I couldn't begin to answer Igor's question, since
    I don't have any experience in his field, but if someone asked a similar question in fields I know about (``has anyone seen examples of the following phenomenon ... ''), I would be glad to share whatever experience I had. I belive that this is all Igor wanted. If the site survives, maybe sometime in the future someone will see his question
    and immediately be able to give an example; I think this would be great, and a success for the site. In the meantime it could persist unanswered, causing no harm that I can see. I'm sure that Igor has also asked his question in person to his colleagues; posting it on a widely read site presumably was deliberate, with the hope of finding someone in the world who might be able to help.

    I understand that the moderators/principal contributors desire to follow a certain model which they believe will be successful, and which will achieve the goals they have in mind. On the other hand, they have managed to create an online community with much greater reach than most other blogs or discussion forums, and it is natural that people will try to use it for many different purposes, most of them positive. I hope that a sense of openness to different tastes, viewpoints, and styles of research can be maintained.

    If people don't like a question, they can always ignore it. Just to conclude with a cheeky comment, I would enjoy trying to give a succint answer to ``What's the deal with algebraic geometry''.
    • CommentAuthorAnweshi
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2010 edited
     

    There is one important difference between stackoverflow and mathoverflow. Over there, "no question is stupid as long as it is about programming". Not so here. There are strong objections to primary-school-level questions and "creative"(in the sense of Harry) questions.

    • CommentAuthorEmerton
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2010
     
    I don't want to be the one to decide whether or not I count as a serious mathematician, but the kind of questions that Harry is criticizing are one of the attractions of the site for me. I'm not trying to argue with the moderators/managers of the site; they should do what they think is best for their purposes. I just want to make the point that there are lots of different things that might attract people of various mathematical stripes to the site, and the things that will appeal to one person, or scare them away, may have the opposite effect on a different person.
  3.  

    You can ask, "why close questions at all?" After all, it's not like we're trying to save space on a hard drive. It's not at first thought unreasonable to say, "let's just leave everything open and ignore what you don't like." One problem is that it's not so easy to ignore stuff (it sounds easy, but it amounts to doing the work of finding what you're interested in, which is quite hard). Another problem is that allowing questions you don't want draws the wrong people and the wrong attitude to the site. As Emerton said, "things that will appeal to one person, or scare them away, may have the opposite effect on a different person." Attempting to target both of those people with the same website is clearly a bad idea. Not everybody has to use MO, and MO users don't have to use it all the time. Having some people trying to play tennis in the same place as others are trying to watch TV is annoying for everybody.

    Closing vague unanswerable questions is partially to deter people from asking such questions and encourage them to ask focused questions that have answers, which is what I believe the SE framework is best for. But it's also to protect the target user base. If a mathematician spends a lot of energy answering a vague question (and they will because so many of them are far too nice or are OCD), I think it's a waste of time (or at least does more harm than good). I generally think that vague questions should be closed but not deleted. That way, if somebody really has something to say about it, they can do it in the comments, where they can't waste too much time because they are restricted to 600 character chunks, but they can easily provide a link to a blog post they made on the topic. The extra energy barrier keeps MO from becoming scatterbrained.

    •  
      CommentAuthorJon Awbrey
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2010
     

    Discourse? Is that anything like discussion?

    •  
      CommentAuthorJon Awbrey
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2010
     

    Expression as a 1-way street, then, exclusive of interaction?

    •  
      CommentAuthorJon Awbrey
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2010
     

    Re: "The whole purpose of being strict with the question policy is to maintain a certain level of discourse."

    It is a frequently a matter of collective interest to decide whether a given means M (for example, being strict with question policy) helps to achieve a given objective O (for example, to maintain a certain level of discourse).

    In the example at hand, we need to ask what is meant by "discourse", especially since its most common meaning, discussion, is expressly deprecated in the main arena.

    Inconsistent values are problems in practice and theory both.

    You mentioned a sense of "discourse" that splits a hair between it and "discussion", but whether you are using that sense is another question.

  4.  

    Dear all,

    I think I must follow Harry Gindi's kind advice and leave this site. It will be better, however, if we part with some warmer sort of mutual feelings. So here are my wishes:

    1) I wish this site success. Life is paradoxical. The natural evolution may well bring this site from such ideas as "not fostering creativity" to something more balanced.

    2) Respect each other. Please note also that posting my question about fractal matrices - and hoping that I will be understood - implied my respect of the smartness of my readers.

    3) By happy in your personal lives.

    • CommentAuthorAnweshi
    • CommentTimeJan 8th 2010 edited
     

    @Korepanov. Are you this person? If so, please don't leave. Your subject has value and you are an experienced researcher. Please do not take to heart what the enfants terribles say. I am a graduate student and I value the presence of experienced people like you in this forum. It would make my own experience here more worthwhile. Please hang around, even if it is only in the background watching for questions of your interest.

    • CommentAuthorAnweshi
    • CommentTimeJan 20th 2010
     

    @Anton. I suggest that the matter of how to create hyperlinks be added to the "how to ask a good question" page. I see many new people not knowing about how to do this. It may be helpful.

    • CommentAuthorTom LaGatta
    • CommentTimeJan 21st 2010 edited
     
    I know I'm a little late to this thread, but it's already been bumped so I'll toss in my two cents.

    @buzzard said, "NB if you think that lots of newcomers are tagging, it's because their posts are quickly edited by old hands."

    I've been on this site for a few months, and it was only *yesterday* that I noticed there was a link at the top of the page to all the tags. I understand why a newcomer has trouble with this! Yes, if a user starts typing something in the tag box, she sees a relevant tag. On the other hand, how should she know what tags are out there to use? There should be a link *next* to the tag box to the list of all available tags, not just at the top of the page.

    @Harry, you said, "If you don't like it, then leave. MO has a designated purpose, and letting in "creative" ... questions tends to scare away serious mathematicians."

    I've heard it said repeatedly that this site is run by the community. Well, the community doesn't automatically agree with you on every issue, or even with Anton and the other moderators. As adults and serious mathematicians, we should be able to respect another user's opinions without resorting to insults, abrasive comments, or asking him to leave the site. I disagree with you on many issues, but I think you are a valuable member of the community and I am thankful for your participation. But please, be respectful!

    @Igor, I hope that you didn't leave the site after all.

    @rwbarton said, "the correct "tool" for questions like yours, I believe, is talking to other people in person."

    While I know that you were specifically talking about Igor's question, let me give my own example (my apologies if this is a bit of a strawman). In my question yesterday ("Changing coordinates so that one Riemannian metric..."), there were answers and comments by Deane Yang, Tim Perutz, Mariano Suárez-Alvarez, Matt Noonan, and HRM. While I would love to have a discussion with these people in person, it is difficult being that I live in Arizona and they in Brooklyn, Austin, Buenos Aires, Ithaca, and Cambridge, respectively. Moreover, before I asked my question, I had no idea that these would be the people I would be discussing it with. On the internet, there are other mathematical resources (newsgroups, blogs, etc.), but none of them has the ease of use or access to such a large community that MathOverflow has. Rather than dismissing one's question out-of-hand, we should sharpen it to make it relevant for this site.

    Since I seem to have tossed in about twelve cents more than I'd proposed at the beginning, it's worth tossing in two more:

    @Anton, thank you so much for administering MathOverflow.
  5.  
    @Harry, I apologize for the "being a dick" comment (calling somebody a dick is just dickish); I edited my post to be more polite. Thanks for the response.
  6.  

    @Anweshi: I'm a bit worried about trying to cram too much into one page. The how to ask page already links to the editing help page, the formatting reference box (in the sidebar when you ask a question) shows you how to link, and the editor has a button for creating links. How about if I add a tip about using the editor to the tip box in the sidebar?

    @Tom (re tagging): There is already a list of all the arXiv tags next to the tag box when you ask a question. Unfortunately, people have become very good at ignoring everything on the page that doesn't immediately relate to what they're doing (I'm guilty of it too), which makes it very hard to educate users before they've actually engaged the community. But after somebody asks a question and starts participating, they're usually very quick to learn how they should behave. Tagging is one thing that takes people a while to get the hang of. Choosing a good title is another one.

    • CommentAuthorAnweshi
    • CommentTimeJan 22nd 2010 edited
     

    @Anton. I understand your concern. The tipbox is a good idea. It may be helpful to also mention the matter of hyperlinks right on the top of the editing help page. As of now one has to look a bit to find it.