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Discussion per se is not really well-suited for the MO software.
On the other hand, I would really be interested if a discussion is held somewhere publicly on the internet (someone´s blog, perhaps?) so I can follow along and perhaps be lucky enough to learn some trickle-down insight.
Which Mochizuki is being referred to?
someone’s blog, perhaps?
Try the comments on Jordan Ellenberg's post.
Discussion is of course not really what MO does, but there are probably a mess of really good questions people could ask (if not answer immediately!) about "Inter-universal" things.
@stankewicz: and yes, such question(s) has already been asked before. At least one was asked three years ago when MO was just started! Link.
This is a great example of a question about Mochizuki's work that is acceptable. (It also appeared just after Mochizuki's paper.)
EDIT (to address complaints, hope the thing below now works for everybody):
The question does not ask a specific question but makes a very generic request for elightenment, and tries to hide this behind this some analogy that is presented at length (for no intrinsic reason).
Hundreds of people might have asked a similar question. If any question of this type stays open, I would at least hope it is one where OP made some actual prior effort.
I cannot see in what sense this question is 'well-meaning' either.
I agree that it might be too early for a good answer, but the question itself doesn't seem unreasonable. Maybe we need to get BC out of retirement, to provide a good comment, even if answers will have to wait.
As ever so often reopened without any of the reopeners commenting...
Well, I can understand you might not have cared about my opinion in particular as it was not articulated too well. But, the fact that JSE who blogged about this (positively) voted to close it did not give you any pause for thought either?
@Scott Morrison: if BC wanted to comment substantially he could have done/can do so on JSE blog where he left a comment.
@JamesDTaylor:
Regarding (my emphasize)
my question is well defined, easy to answer for experts, and interesting to many members of this forum. I see no good reason to close the question.
Yeah, right. Depends on your notion of expert, I guesss. I do not know what a 'well-defined question' should be in this context. But since yours is based on some premises of yours for which you only provide most anecdotal evidence, I doubt even that. (But this last part is besides the point.)
Regarding your other questions that were so well received, guess you missed that thread:
http://tea.mathoverflow.net/discussion/1109/posting-questions-without-adequate-thought/
@evgeniamerkulova: I changed it, hope it works now. [For the record the second phrase that is quoted from me had a a sort off disclaimer attached to it that made it less strong than the quoted form suggests.]
But calling me "stubborn" (on main even) is tolerable?
my question is ... easy to answer for experts
This is actually what makes me a little uneasy about the question (I don't agree it is easy to answer for experts). Maybe I'm off base about this, but my impression is that there are only a handful of people in the world who could give a really compelling answer beyond simply repeating things from Mochizuki's recent papers. I'm not fond of the idea of questions aimed at a very small set of people, since it feels too much like a personal request for information. On the other hand, the broader interpretation would be a request for one of the people currently reading these papers to summarize their understanding of the motivation in the form of an MO answer, which doesn't seem all that constructive to me (this already has a natural home on blogs).
questions of this type are routinely answered with great enthusiasm on this website
I see them as questions of a somewhat different type, namely about folklore intuition that is definitely known to many experts but may be written down only in places a non-expert wouldn't be aware of.
@Giuseppe: I could tell you plenty of reasons why it is relavant. Just deleted a ten lines explanation tough, since perhaps I said already enough.
@James Cranch (but also more generally): I do not know what you mean by 'a lobby to close the question'. Anyway, it is a completely standard thing that individual user based on their judgement express their opinion that a question is unsuitable for MO (for any number of reasons) via a vote to close or just by saying so.
Sorry to have made you temporarily feel miserable.
Let us see how we all feel if ever somebody should answer that the vision was this but it is flawed for that rason, accompanied by some argument that does not seem nonsensical and is not easy to refute. Then, what?
To wit, on some blog (sbseminar, incidentally, if I remember well) there was already some jokster claiming an error, in a naive form, which is no problem as easy to refute. But somebody might do it in a sophisticated form or in good faith (while being wrong), or also [it is not exclude, though I certainly have not heard anything like this so far] while being right. In some sense while globally very unfortunate the last would be the least problem for MO in such a scenario.
But do you personally want to take responsibilty for potentially spreading some (false) rumor on the incorrectness of this result?
Now, you can say you have no influence on this. However, if one has the ability to vote on the open/closeness of a question then one shares this responsibility personally (in a certain sense; not fully as the moderators could always overrule any decision, but then it seems almost unfair to me to leave them alone in these decision).
So, you might think all these people that vote to close are just some wet-blankets (or worse). But, perhaps, just perhaps, some of them actually thought about what they are doing when they press that button (in abstract and concrete situations).
Now, you are of course free to disagree with their judgement in this case. Yet, if you would like to do so it would seem apt to me if you could answer the question I asked. 'Then, what?'
It is honestly not so clear to me how to proceed then, if the question is open. (What would be the argument to outlaw this answer we do not want? The others are not so narrowly on-topic either to make an argument based on this aspct for instance).
So, how would you proceed in this scenario?
Some direct replies and then some more general comments:
@velnias: yes, I do admit to overdramatizing a bit and it seems too much so. Thus, in view of your elegant formulation let us agree I should not go for long in this direction ;) Your analogy with the responsibilty if a gap were not to be found is however not so good in my opinion; looking for one is completely out of the mandate of MO, thus there is simply no responsibilty regarding this, so I can easily accept my share of it.
@James Borger: Did you consider that the existence of this question, makes it unlikely (basically impossible) that a much better question of this type will ever be asked (and survive) and even if it would be asked not receive the same level of attention. This is mentioned in my very first comment here on meta; I would have some reservations for any question of this form at this time, but if there is to be one, it should better be a good question. I find the idea that some non-MO mathematician searches on the net for information on the recent ABC developments and then this question (containing blatant falsehoods, for instance) is the first they see of MO simply a bit embarassing. Okay, the answers do make up for it, but this question even more so with that level of approval is in my opinion a disgrace [added: is 'disgrace' too strong a word? if so replace by 'unfortunate']; if at least the question had a negative score, one could think community moderation works.
@General: Of course I do agree that now Minhyong Kim should have the opportunity to answer (and this already happened), however I would like to highlight his very first half-sentence (cf Henry Cohn's contribution in this thread):
I would have preferred not to comment seriously on Mochizuki's work before much more thought had gone into the very basics [...]
not to quote this out of context though I add that he gives this a positive twist for example by saying
[...] the current sense of urgency to understand something seems generally a good thing.
So, I really hope all those that were so keen to know about this in near real-time will make some effort to actually understand something relate to this. In that sense I liked Marty's suggestion.
Added a bit later: I forgot, somehow in reply to velnias but also James Borger, to clarify that while the precise scenario I mentioned is admittedly not that likely (to cause a real problem) I however do think that (in particular over time, and if this stays open in the end, answers can come in in months) there can be a slippery slope and grey area from 'vision' to 'outline' to 'commenting on correctnes/feasibilty'. And, there were lengthy discussions on discussing recent preprints on MO. Indeed, on this matter I am/was personally rather towards the soft/open end of the spectrum of opinions expressed (with some caveats and reservations). Yet, some others basically said this should never happen. In any case, I do maintain that the vague and openended nature of this question over time has the potential to lead to problems (albeit not disasters).
I think I cast the first vote to reopen in the current round, so I should probably give a reason, though for the most part the reasons have already been explained by other people. Simply: having this question open makes the world, and MO, a better place.
As far as I can tell, the main objection has to do with whether the question could have any good answer at this stage. I think the superbly informative answers that have now appeared lay that doubt to rest.
@Tom Leinster: in some sense it is too late for this occassion, but just to clarify my point of view, since this might or might not become relevant on other occassion.
My first objection to this particular question is simply that in my opinion it is a terrible question, and for example fails numerous criteria laid out under "how to ask". (It is true I also have some reservation regarding this type of question, but this is a different matter; and my oppoisition to this type of question is not at all absolute, it is mainly a question of timing.)
Now, there is something to be said that one sometimes can allow 'bad questions' to get the 'good answers', but in this case I see (I should say saw) very little reason for doing so, since there are many people suceptible of creating an instance of this type of question that would be much better.
To further ilustrate what I mean: in retrospect I think it was a mistake that I opposed "Has-the-abc-conjecture-been-solved?" ; except for the title (but this is easy to change), this is in my opinion the relatively better question in that it at least does not pretend to want something specific (and does not force upon the reader some drivel around the Weil conjectures). It then could have served as some sort of container for texts on the subject (because this is what we are actually talking about here, not answers to some formulated question).
You say:
having this question open makes the world, and MO, a better place
However, I think there is a potential fallacy here. Namely, you(1) conflate the existence of a question of this type on MO, and the existence of texts of the type given as answers in the world, with the existence of this particular question. But this is not realistic; except perhaps on a very narrow timeline. But then if this is so important we should have encouraged davidac897 and his idea to have all this possibly still some hours earlier, or allowed the first questtion of about this type.
Personally, I consider it, as said, as unfortunate that this particular question got the interesting texts as so-called answers, as opposed to them or close cognates of them living under a nicer roof (on MO, or elsewhere).
As said it now seems to late anyway, but still I wanted to summarize my point of view and in particular highlight that I consider the question whether this particular question was one suitable for MO and the question whether a question of this type can be suitable for MO as quite orthogonal. For the former in my opinion the answer is very clearly "no" (and this opinion stays, independent of all answers), for the later this is more tricky but this is somehow obsolete now and already having writeen too much I will leave it here.
Footnote:
(1) Actually from what you write alone I can not be sure you personally do, so this is rather an abstract you. But I am quite convinced that not too few people are (at least to a certain degree and/or subconsiously) victim to this falllacy.
I think that edit would be great and would really help clarify the question and make more users happy with it.
Yes, +1 Andy.
Yes, please edit away; thanks. It really should have been made community wiki anyway, IMO.
Todd - I thought that too, but considering the fantastic amount of work that the likes of Minhyong Kim have put into their answers, I think they deserve credit.
As a technical point -- is credit that has already been acquired erased once a question is struck by the wiki-hammer? I'm asking with regard to both questions and answers.
What I don't understand, behaviorally, is all this wildly celebratory upvoting of a question which seemed sort of off-hand and casual. MO is so weird, sometimes. The upvoting of great answers I do of course understand.
@Todd: my interpretation is that those upvotes more or less mean "I would also like to see an answer to this question!"
Let me also note that on StackExchange there is a moderator message template part of which concerns users who answer few questions. This isn't bad enough behavior to warrant a suspension but it is somewhat contrary to the spirit of the enterprise.
@Qiaochu: after about 50 upvotes and several thousand views and several good answers , it seems further expression of such a wish is pretty redundant, unnecessary, superfluous. "Your wish has been granted, already. Calm down."
Anyway, can anyone answer the question I asked a few comments ago?
@Qiaochu, again: I can't say I'm particularly bothered by people who mostly ask rather than answer questions, per se. (Thus, I don't particularly approve of mechanisms which try to get people to give more answers, if that's not their inclination.) I am bothered though if there is little indication that they are truly engaged with the question, or engaged with the people who try to provide thoughtful answers. Depth of thought and research behind a question is generally highly appreciated. I guess those are obvious points.
@Andy Putman: Thanks for the edit.
Regarding CW mode: credit is not erased retroactively. It would be possible to only turn the question into CW mode; existing answers would then not be CW; new ones however would be CW.
Yes, thanks to Andy!
@quid: thanks; that's what I suspected.