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I think François was out of line to reopen the question when it had four votes to close and thus extended this discussion. It would have probably been closed and not reopened without his intervention. I wasn't even going to comment on this thread, as I have nothing nice to say about this question. By the way, I was the one to cast the vote to delete and, as someone correctly guessed, it was a vote of protest.
@bsteinberg (Benjamin): yes, I understood that was your intent. I will upvote François's comment. But are you suggesting that I should also take back my vote?
The close/open voting system wasn't designed with wars in mind. After a few iterations the system has worn out its usefulness, so we call a draw and ignore all votes. The question is then judged on its own merits and we decided to leave this question open. (The question was not left in its last state, as some suggested. Had it been closed at the time, I would simply have reopened it.)
Personally, I don't like this question (and none of the moderators said they liked it) but the main reason I dislike it is that it will inevitably attract junk answers and comments after a while. The rationale for leaving it open is that there would be much less commotion if the question got closed at that time.
@François: thanks for the additional clarification. I just looked again at the open/close cycles and saw your name among the last batch of closers. Which makes your decision to reopen a little more impressive (I say 'your' since yours was the public face of that decision, even if it was arrived at jointly with other moderators).
After a few iterations the system has worn out its usefulness, so we call a draw and ignore all votes.
I take that to mean that any decision to close thereafter is to reside solely in the hands of the moderators; yes? Also, is that a general policy, and if so, does it kick in after some predetermined number of open/close cycles? Or is this a case-by-case sort of thing?
@Todd. François's "vote to close" was just a technical device to clear the votes. Once the question was closed he, as a moderator, could reopen it with the vote count set to zero.
As Felipe pointed out, the close/reopen manoever was just to clear the votes and end the war.
I take that to mean that any decision to close thereafter is to reside solely in the hands of the moderators; yes?
Yes, it's a trigger for moderators to do some more traditional "hands-on" moderation. Each question is evaluated on its own merits and community input is always considered. Remember that this is a conflict resolution mechanism whose main purpose is to keep disputes from escalating. The goal is not to "judge" whether the question should be closed or reopened.
Also, is that a general policy, and if so, does it kick in after some predetermined number of open/close cycles? Or is this a case-by-case sort of thing?
This is the traditional way to handle close wars. Three cycles is the typical threshold. Less if the dispute has taken a bad turn. More if productive discussion is still happening.
@voloch: oh, duh. Of course you're right. @François: thanks for answering my questions.
I confess that I have been unable to understand almost anything that the questioner has written here in defense of the question. It seems that Amir's methods of communicating written ideas do not match well with my methods of taking them in. Perhaps I am allergic to heavy use of analogies and quotations.
Regarding war policy, I think we passed the threshold of unsatisfactory answers right around the beginning, and this is because the question that was asked does not lend itself to reasonable answers that directly address it. As far as I can tell, any positive contribution to the current question would be more appropriate as an answer to Gowers's question.
Does anyone have a good reason for keeping it open any longer?
What do you see as good about the question, Gil? To me the question sets a rather bad example of public mathematical behaviour -- gossiping about a misunderstanding that one had by listening-in on a prominent mathematican's private conversation. It's sort of tabloid mathematics.
Regarding war policy, I think we passed the threshold of unsatisfactory answers right around the beginning, and this is because the question that was asked does not lend itself to reasonable answers that directly address it.
The only breath of fresh air, in my opinion, was Andrej Bauer's answer (which was posted yesterday). The question as expressed in the title sounded more or less rhetorical to me, and the body of the question had these annoying sound bites ("death to Euclid", "philosophical breakdown", "I couldn't get to sleep", and whatnot) which even if accurate just made matters confusing as hell. It was this that imparted the tabloid-y aspect to me -- not precisely gossip, but close to zero information that one could really make use of in formulating a response. And so we get answers that try their best but verge close to platitude.
Yay to Andrej for saving the day. My heart was lightened and gladdened by his response, and it deserves to be read several times.
As there is reference made to an agreement, I would like to recall some points related to this:
I said the following then (see the ABC aftermath thread towards the end for reference ), comment ing on a proposal by gilkalai:
if you exclude lists, and very soft-questions, and things that are llikely to be offensive from your rule, then I would say that I in principle would accept the underlying idea.
To which gilkalai replied:
Good, so we are in agreement on this matter.
In my opinion the question/answer combination in its current state is already extremely close possibly beyond the line of being offensive. (Also it could qualify as very soft.)
The leaving open for some time was an additional matter that even under this agreement question (mainly lists) will not stay open indefinitely. If however the question is likley to be offensive (the case for this questions in its current state of evolution, in my opinion) it is of course still to be closed (before it becomes massively offensive).