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    • CommentAuthorRegenbogen
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2010 edited
     

    Due to some special set of circumstances, I have had a few occasions to discuss about MO with members of many math departments in many places. It seems that at most reasonably good places there is some set of people who daily check the site and discuss over tea and other gossip sessions the questions, answers, bickering and other events at MO. But these people are not members themselves.

    Have others observed this phenomenon? There is a chance that it just my (illusory) feeling. For instance, a cat lover might find that the whole universe is full of cat lovers. Or, an owner of a Mercedes-Benz would keep noticing other such cars.

  1.  
    Yes, I have observed the same phenomenon myself. A lot of mathematicians I know seem to be aware of my MO activity -- I get a steady stream of wry comments to that effect -- even while most of them are not visible participants on the site.
    • CommentAuthorRegenbogen
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2010 edited
     

    I have had the additional benefit of being anonymous. I mean, in the discussions I had, I also acted like one of these inactive spectators. If pressed I did confess that I was an anonymous participant; but this was rarely necessary as people don't seem to take me as a guy who might be active in such a forum.

    I mean, it isn't the case that the person who was talking to me googled my name and found my MO userpage. I came to know of MO's popularity via honest gossip. Like, I'm MO's secret agent in the populace.

    • CommentAuthorfedja
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2010
     
    That is one of the reasons that keep me using my first name but not my last name on this forum. The ears stick out, of course, but only for those who know me well already. It is funny how many people enjoy other's "public performances" but abstain from performing in public themselves. I've heard somewhere that the number of adults fearing giving a public speech exceeds the number of adults fearing death. Well, that silent spectator pool gives us one extra reason to keep the performance at high level. :-)
    • CommentAuthorRegenbogen
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2010
     

    It is normal that a spectator population exists. The size of it was what was astonishing to me. It seems to be of several times magnitude more than what I imagined.

    Again, will Anton be able to produce some helpful "actual data"?

  2.  

    A bunch of people in my department who aren't on MO themselves (or if they are, I haven't seen them) know that I'm here a lot. I'm not sure what exactly this means, but there are more spectators than we think!

    Those who have blogs should be familiar with this; there are a lot more blog-readers than blog-writers.

  3.  

    A surprising number of math undergrads that I know are aware of MO, even though the undergrad population here is quite small.

  4.  

    @Qiaochu: you're at MIT, right? If you think there's a small undergrad population in math at MIT, you're in for a shock when you go to grad school. (I'm speaking from experience here.)

  5.  

    Again, will Anton be able to produce some helpful "actual data"?

    I'm not sure what sort of data you're interested in. See this other thread for some discussion of our lurker population. The numbers aren't so different now than they were then. About 1600 people have done something on MO, but we get about 4000 unique visitors per day. The average length of a visit is now about 7.5 minutes.

    • CommentAuthorCSiegel
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2010
     
    Michael, I think Qiaochu meant on MO.
  6.  

    Yes, that's what I meant. None of the undergrads I know at MIT post here, to my knowledge, although they might lurk.

  7.  

    There are definitely a lot of undergraduate lurkers. A few undergraduates wanted to meet me during our open house just because of my presence on MO. I was completely baffled!

  8.  

    @Anton- I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly enjoy traffic information. For example, do you know how many unique visitors we've had total?

  9.  

    Ben, I think you speak for a lot of us.

  10.  

    @Anton- I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly enjoy traffic information.

    I'm happy to post whatever aggregate data anybody wants to know (that I can easily get my hands on). I have access to a few sources of information that random users can't see:

    • The complete database dump. This is useful for answering questions about actual use of the site. Things like "what is the average time between when a question is asked and when it gets its first answer?" Most such questions can actually be answered by looking at the public dump.
    • Google analytics. This is useful for answering questions about how people browse the site. I can use it to answer questions like "what part of the world do users come from?" and "how many pages does the average visitor look at?"
    • Google webmaster tools. This tells me how much googlebot is looking at MO, how many URLs have been indexed, what Google thinks are important keywords, and what pages have the most links to them from elsewhere.

    The "4000 unique visitors per day" is based on analytics. The "1600 people have actually done something" is based on looking at badge counts: the [Teacher] and [Student] badges are only awarded once and anybody who posts a non-spam question or answer will get one of these badges.

    For example, do you know how many unique visitors we've had total?

    252,246 according to analytics. Uniqueness is measured by a cookie, so this overcounts people who have cleared their cookies or used MO from different computers. It undercounts when multiple people use MO from the same computer and when people use MO without javascript enabled.

  11.  

    It undercounts when multiple people use MO from the same computer and when people use MO without javascript enabled.

    Or weird people like me, who run firefox with the NoScript extension and haven't enabled google analytics.

    • CommentAuthorHarry Gindi
    • CommentTimeApr 25th 2010 edited
     

    @Anton: Are there more or fewer distinct IPs than distinct visitors?

    Edit: Replaced unique with distinct as per voloch's suggestion.

  12.  

    Are there more or fewer unique IPs than unique visitors?

    I don't know how to get a list of IPs from Google analytics, though it must be collecting them. If somebody knows how to do this, please let me know. FWIW, the MO database has 68,386 unique IPs appearing in it (surprisingly high, I think). That only counts IPs of people who have done something (though it's a weaker form of doing something than before ... for example, registering an account counts as doing something).

  13.  
    There is probably no reason to think the ratio of participants to lurkers is different than in other on-line venues.
  14.  
    I'm surprised that so few people have the "enthusiast" or "fanatic" badges without posting anything. Perhaps they lurk without logging in.
  15.  

    @Douglas: What would be the point of logging in if all you do is lurk?

  16.  

    @Gerald: I think there's some reason to think that there are even more lurkers per participant here than on a more typical site, since the bar for a valuable contribution is set higher here than usual.

  17.  

    @Harald: perhaps to have access to the "interesting" and "ignored" tags feature?

  18.  

    @Scott: Duh.

  19.  

    About counting IPs: it seems dangerous to conflate "IPs" with "users". For example I probably show up fairly regularly with at least three different IPs - my home Internet connection, the desktop in my office, and my laptop used wirelessly in my office. But is the ratio of IPs to users constant in time, so that number of different IPs can at least be used to measure the growth of the site in some reasonable way? It seems to me that more "hard core" users would be more likely to show up from several IPs. I can't guess off the top of my head if the number of hard core users has been going up or down with time. (And it probably fluctuates seasonally!)

  20.  

    There are also some other problems with counting IP addresses: often an entire department or institute (e.g. Max Planck in Bonn) appears to hide behind a single IP address.

  21.  

    @Scott: that's pretty interesting! I wonder if they have a "MO room" at Max Planck (-:?

    • CommentAuthorRegenbogen
    • CommentTimeApr 27th 2010 edited
     

    Well, every secure university department network system directs all traffic through some proxy. It is the norm. Can't be helped.

    This shouldn't be an issue. People will also use MO at their homes. I use it even on my mobile. By referring to usernames using some clever sequence of greps, etc., one should be able to find out unique visitors.

    And google analytics will anyway given unique visitors, even with shared IP addresses. They manage it with cookies.

  22.  

    What's "google analytics"? How do I find out if it's monitoring me, and how do I turn it off?

  23.  

    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=google+analytics

    (Sorry, I couldn't resist!)

  24.  

    +1 Qiaochu!

    • CommentAuthorvoloch
    • CommentTimeApr 27th 2010
     
    Well, this thread made me decide to stop lurking and sign up for meta (of course I've been active at MO itself).

    Of all places, of all people, you should know it's not "unique visitors" it's "distinct visitors", dammit!
    /pet peeve.
    • CommentAuthorRegenbogen
    • CommentTimeApr 27th 2010
     

    This is exactly what I was talking about! See! Voloch was following each of our moves in meta, but he never gave the slightest sign. What I am saying is that the same happens in MO also! And the population of the spectators is much higher.

    • CommentAuthorHarry Gindi
    • CommentTimeApr 27th 2010 edited
     

    Of all places, of all people, you should know it's not "unique visitors" it's "distinct visitors", dammit!

    Nothing is more annoying to me than replacing "satisfy" with "verify". I've seen this in French as well, and I wonder if they both can mean the same thing in French (based on the below, it's not such a huge stretch, although I haven't really checked).

    The phrase, "Le faisceau associé à un préfaisceau" is grammatically sound in French (where à here means "with" in this context), and it seems like the usage of "associated to" in mathematics in English comes directly from mistranslations of things like this.

  25.  

    I guess the French knew about the Completeness Theorem well before Gödel did!

    Added 1: Harry, can you give me an example? (I don't think I mix these two, though I do mix a lot of other things.)

    Added 2: To me, the alternative "le faisceau associé avec le préfaisceau" mildly suggests a symmetric relationship, which is not true in this case; I guess "avec" is sometimes closer to "together" than just "with."

    • CommentAuthorHarry Gindi
    • CommentTimeApr 27th 2010 edited
     

    Added 1: Harry, can you give me an example? (I don't think I mix these two, though I do mix a lot of other things.)

    It could just be an error in the french as well, but I saw it in Toën's notes on stacks and thought that it could be a similar thing like what happened with "associated with" and "associated to", but as I admitted, this was really just speculation =).

    Added 2: To me, the alternative "le faisceau associé avec le préfaisceau" mildly suggests a symmetric relationship, which is not true in this case; I guess "avec" is sometimes closer to "together" than just "with."

    I just know that the form I stated is correct in French but translating "à" as "to" returns an ungrammatical sentence in English (cf. JS Milne's page complaining about these things).