Vanilla 1.1.9 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.
I hope you can understand why I didn't think it was worth it to get into arguments with random argumentative people on the internet, but now that you've brought the question up here on meta.MO, I guess I should field it.
I'm wondering whether the name 'mathoverflow.net' leads significant numbers of people to expect that all questions (in particular elementary ones) are welcome. A common complaint in off-site discussions about mathoverflow is "mathoverflow is NOT stackoverflow for math -- they don't allow beginner questions". If the the name of the site didn't have the stackoverflow connotation, I suspect that there would be significantly fewer people showing up expecting that their homework problems would be answered.
Homework questions are going to happen no matter what, but we've actually seen relatively few of them. If somebody comes to the site and still thinks that very elementary questions are acceptable after looking at the home page (they obviously don't read the FAQ), then changing the name of the site is not going to help them. Since MO uses the same software as Stack Overflow, the comparison is going to happen regardless of the name. That said, I think the analogy SO:programming::MO:math is a very good one. SO's target audience is programmers. Amateurs are welcome to join the party so long as their questions are of interest to programmers. Similarly, MO's target audience is mathematicians, and amateurs are welcome to join if their contributions are of interest to mathematicians. It just happens that programming is a much more accessible field than mathematics; a professional programmer learning a new language has many of the same questions as an amateur learning the same language, but a professional mathematician never has the problem that she's forgotten how to integrate x⋅e^x and wants some help with it.
Of all the discussion about MO I've seen on the internet, the complaint "mathoverflow is not stackoverflow for math" has only come up once, in the comments on reddit. Some other negative opinions expressed there are along the lines of "don't those snobs realize how much more traffic they would get if they were willing to help everybody?" (as if we were trying to monetize the site, rather than improve the lives of mathematicians) and "they'll probably struggle to gain any real popularity," so I've learned not to take complaints from the internet too seriously. Much more common is the sentiment, "I was sure a math Q&A site would be instantly flooded with calculus questions, but this one isn't. That's fantastic!"
(apparently there's a character limit on comments here, and I was way over it)
A couple of related points: My guess is that the majority of our target audience (research mathematicians, etc.) has never heard of stackoverflow.net, so the 'overflow' part of the name doesn't do very much for us in terms of positive connotation. Also, maybe it's worth choosing a name which helps discourage homework questions, like a less clunky version of mathresearchquestions.net or no-homework-questions-here.net. (Of course, no name change will completely eliminate unwanted questions, but the real question is whether a name change would have a significant effect on the problem.)
There are lots of reasons I think "MathOverflow" is an excellent name. Of course, I'm somewhat biased.
As I already mentioned, I think that there is already as low a frequency of homework problems as we're ever likely to get. Whenever I close a homework problem, I leave a polite comment explaining that the question is not appropriate for MO and linking to the FAQ, as well as some other math forums where homework questions are acceptable. It's been quite rare that the asker has gotten upset about it, and I don't think we've ever had a repeat offender.
All that said, even if I agreed that the name is terrible, I think it would be a bad idea to change it at this point. Even though the site has only been up for about 7 weeks, it's gotten a lot of attention. For better or worse (better, in my opinion), everybody now knows the site as MathOverflow.
Okay, I'll byte … howsabout —
Ja Ja ---ED: annoying bouncing smiley deleted---
I don't think it's possible to copy the semantic nuances of Stack Overflow name into the math world. Just imagine the typical programming situation translated to math profession's domain:
It's one hour before the head of your department is going to make a highly technical presentation that is going to make or break your next year's funding (this is already strange enough). You're performing the final checks on the whiteboard — when suddenly you realize there is a divergent sum! You could swear the damn thing wasn't diverging yesterday (fun again), yet now the whole department is in danger. The 10-people team of you and your fellow mathematicians immediately drops other work and frantically writes formulas trying to eliminating this divergence. Finally, five minutes before the start you find that the problem was created by a fellow graduate student who wasn't careful in erasing his whiteboard. The happy head is able to announce that an important theorem has been proven.
@Ilya: fantastic! Can you GPL that comment, please, I'd like to use it.
@Everyone else: If you want to know why changing the name is a Bad Idea, read about Consignia plc (a British company).
I expect that most mathematicians have never heard of stackoverflow so the fact that the names are familiar probably doesn't mean a lot to them. Those that have will know that a mathematical site won't be the same as a programming site (I haven't searched SO for lambda calculus, but I'd be surprised if there were many hits). I think that Anton's right: wherever there are more than 2 mathematicians gathered together, there will be a cheeky student asking homework questions. I think that the only reason mailing lists don't have this problem is a combination of security-by-obscurity and the fact that someone checks the subscription requests. As mathoverflow does want either of these (I presume), homeworks are always going to be a problem so the best solution is to figure out how to discourage homeworks rather than choose a site name like "No Mathematics Homeworks Questions Allowed.com".
@Andrew, sure, use my comment any way you like with some basic attribution, e.g. using my name, linking to this thread or even referring to "Math Overflow folklore". GPL has some complicated requirements (you have to distribute copy of the license), but you're welcome to venture into it if you'd like.
Speaking about lambdas, there are 14 questions tagged "lambda-calculus", 262 questions tagged "lambda-expressions" and 363 questions tagged "lambda" on SO.
As for the name, it may be not perfect, but it's better than most other alternatives in my opinion. I agree the FAQ could be a bit more direct that "we're not an encyclopedia, in contrast to Stack Overflow". It says about homework though, and this doesn't stop people from posting.
I think that the only reason mailing lists don't have this problem is a combination of security-by-obscurity and the fact that someone checks the subscription requests.
Speaking about mailing lists, based on my experiences with python-dev (Python developers) the most effective policy is that any non-developer answer can be immediately redirected to some different mailing list. People who make at least basic checks before they post can easily see how this happens and they go and post on the recommended list.
In other words, we need a solution to python-dev : python-list = Math Overflow : ?
Given the prevalence of Gamer mentality, maybe the following MOniker would be more apt:
@Ilya: this seems to be what they're trying to do with the "try your question on dr math" (or wherever). I'm not sure I'd want an automatic reposting since then the moderators here would have the responsibility of working out which was the best alternative place and whilst it is a nice thing to do to automatically redirect, I think it's more appropriate to a mailing list where the number of potential wrongly-placed questions would be lower than on a website. If I get an automatic redirect then I've still gained something from posting here and so may as well post here again next time, whereas if I just get told "Try somewhere else" then I haven't so am much less likely to post again. But then one doesn't want to be seen as actually rude!
Sorry, I wasn't clear — by "automatic" I meant that people just reply with a suggestion for a different venue, exactly the way you suggest. Examples: an example, another, and how python-ideas list appeared.
Now that I think about it, the python-dev does also have a visible red notice which might be less suitable for MO.
Then again there are days when I think that names like following might be more apt:
Math Jeopardy
Math Side Story
When you're a Jet …
@fpqc : I don't think the branding question is really on the table anymore, making this thread something between a moot court and a water-cooler quip meet.
Still, your point is well taken — the more clearly the site management articulates its actual aims and values the less waste of ergs and secs there will be all around.
Yes, Ben already posted this in another thread.
Regarding the rights to names issue, and as was said elsewhere: we're on good terms with the StackOverflow people, and regardless, a legal claim against our use of the name would probably be dubious, and would likely result in a loss on community support incommensurate with any purported benefits.
I don't want to rain on your parade, but I think after 7+ months it may be time to put the question of renaming the site behind us.
I do like the name. Perhaps one could start a blog about non-amenable groups or logic with that name.
1 to 24 of 24