Not signed in (Sign In)

Vanilla 1.1.9 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

Is this question acceptable?: What if tenure dies?

Bottom of Page

1 to 10 of 10

  1.  
    • CommentAuthorIgor Pak
    • CommentTimeJul 21st 2010
     
    I am not sure anymore what is and what is not acceptable at MO, in view of questions like this:
    http://mathoverflow.net/questions/32566/careers-advice-for-ph-d-s-without-current-postdocs-or-university-jobs
    (to which I myself, perhaps unproductively, contributed). It seems, MO became more of a "math research central" where academic questions can be discusses. Given the importance of the issue, perhaps we can discuss our own answers to this question:
    http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2010/7/19/what-if-college-tenure-dies/why-tenure-is-unsustainable-and-indefensible
    which was later continued elsewhere, like here:
    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2010/07/tenure-an-idea-whose-time-has-gone/60187/
    I realize that this is more of a "blog discussion" type issue, but the universal applicability and popularity of MO may (or may not?) make it a better quality discussion. Let me know what you think. -- IP
    • CommentAuthorMariano
    • CommentTimeJul 21st 2010 edited
     

    A key problem is that the software underlying MO is a very bad fit for a discussion.

  3.  

    Discuss it here instead: http://quomodocumque.wordpress.com/2010/07/20/i-am-cranky-about-people-who-are-cranky-about-the-tenure-system/

    The career advice question is borderline, but I think there it was possible for more experienced mathematicians to give reasonably objective advice. This, on the other hand, seems like a fairly contentious issue.

    • CommentAuthorGS
    • CommentTimeJul 21st 2010
     
    Hi Igor,

    I'm not sure what the question is yet (after reading the articles). Would you ask something like

    "What would a viable alternative to the tenure system look like?"

    or perhaps more specifically something like "How much (as a function of N) would we have to pay academic mathematicians if we want to attract equal talent without tenure, but with N years renewable contracts?"

    I realize that I'm likely in the minority (probably nearly all the really active people on MO/meta will disagree with me?) but I'd like to hear answers to some question along these lines. Perhaps once you actually write down a question and propose it here on meta some of the resistance will soften? I think that trying to phrase a precise, answerable question about this would be an interesting exercise in itself, and it seems to me that there are lots of candidates.

    Cheers,
    Steve
  5.  

    I agree with Qiaochu: to discuss whether tenure should be maintained is going to be very contentious.

    Perhaps a question like: "practical advices on how to prepare yourself if the tenure system dies" can be potentially helpful, depending on how close we are to the doomsday.

    • CommentAuthorGS
    • CommentTimeJul 21st 2010
     
    Eh, I guess I should mention: the question is not "What if tenure dies?", right??? As employed in the NYTimes op-ed it is purely rhetorical (not really a question).

    I have to admit I don't think asking *that* question will produce very interesting answers.
    • CommentAuthorIgor Pak
    • CommentTimeJul 21st 2010
     
    Hi Steve,
    To answer your question, I was thinking of "How should we revamp the current tenure system?" It seems obvious to me that current tenure system will die in our lifetime, so I say it's never too soon to start thinking of how to fix it before too late (someone does it for us with long-term drastic results). I have thought about this question for awhile and have my own answer I wanted to contribute. I followed Qiaochu's suggestion and made a short post on Jordan's blog http://tinyurl.com/2upjy8t - perhaps others are right and this is just too subjective and contentious issue to fit MO... -- IP
    • CommentAuthorVP
    • CommentTimeJul 22nd 2010
     

    If anything, I think that we (mathematics professionals, not MO users) should seriously discuss how to counteract the crud that flows up from the so-called "think tanks". "Articles" like the "Room for debate" bloviations quoted by Igor seem to make more and more frequent appearances even in mainstream press, such as the NY Times, and yet I don't think the tenure system has gotten worse in the past year.

    • CommentAuthorHarry Gindi
    • CommentTimeJul 22nd 2010 edited
     

    @VP:

    Hearkening back to our earlier discussion, can I at least display contempt for the general public for taking these people seriously?

    Pretty please?

    ;)

    • CommentAuthorVP
    • CommentTimeJul 22nd 2010
     

    Ok, Harry, just this one time you may, but you must be an A scout for at least 24 hours afterward.

    I should note, though, that some of the commentators display skills worthy of Swift in their responses to philosophy professors with their wonderful ideas how to rationalize the world and maximize the profit.

1 to 10 of 10

  1.  
Back to Discussions Top of Page