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  1.  

    I'd like to propose that when a question is closed as "homework", and it's 'egregious', that we also delete any well-meaning answers that have already appeared.

    Here's an example of the things I have in mind. In particular, see the answer at the bottom, to which Jay, the asker, comments: "Thanks! Your responses are greatly appreciated. – Jay". This was definitely a case where the unwelcome guest went away happy.

    So far, I downvote answers to homework questions, and try to explain why they shouldn't be answered. I suspect that this is enough already, but I wanted to get people's opinions on a possible escalation!

    •  
      CommentAuthorJon Awbrey
    • CommentTimeNov 23rd 2009 edited
     

    Do you mean to exclude all homeworky questions, or just undergrad homeworky questions? A large percentage of the questions that appear to be locally valorized as "non-soft" questions appear to be typical of those seen in grad school problem seminars. That is healthy exercise, indeed, but if it's the main intention of the site managers to stick to that, then it might help all concerned to articulate the distinction a little more clearly.

  2.  

    @Scott-

    This seems like a strange position. I think either one should leave the question with answers up, or you should delete the whole shebang. I would be supportive, though with some reservations, about the latter position.

  3.  

    I like Anton's policy:

    My policy has been that it's okay to point somebody in the right direction in a comment (not an answer) after it's been made clear that the question belongs on some other forum and not on MO.

    I also don't think this is homework. It looks like the sort of thing a high school student might be confused about because his or her teacher never explained it clearly; any teacher who assigned a student to remember how he or she chose to define an edge case should not be teaching math.

  4.  

    @David,

    I think the question though is what to do after someone breaks Anton's quoted policy, by leaving a helpful answer.

  5.  
    I agree with Scott that answers to homework-ish questions should be deleted, as they will encourage future askers to try and get away with an answer before a moderator intervenes.
    Also, if votes on these answers give reputation, we run the risk of being hijacked by a (potentially large enough) sub-community of people asking and answering these questions. It has happened elsewhere.
  6.  

    Hijacking isn't a huge danger, I think. We always have the nuclear optioning of suspending users.

    •  
      CommentAuthorJon Awbrey
    • CommentTimeNov 23rd 2009
     

    Scott,

    It is usually better to do something pre-emptive — and I don't mean nuclear — than it is to bash people after the fact.

    If you're not really open to all the hassles that come with running an open site, then perhaps you should consider different management models and software options.

    Just for one example, if you want to exclude the sorts of users who ask "unwanted questions", then maybe you should consider putting user filters up front, rather than allowing open registration.

    As a general rule, clarifying your values and articulating them up front will lead to less headaches on all sides in the long run.

  7.  
    @Jon,

    I disagree that user filtering is desirable; I think that would create unnecessary work for prospective users, and besides my impression at least was that the site was to collect together questions with a certain lower bound on mathematical sophistication, not necessarily to create a community of exclusively professional mathematicians (though they may be intended to be the primary users).

    I think the policy of closing and downvoting homework questions is preferable and probably less work in the long run.
  8.  
    I think I disagree that deleting answers to HW questions (or making it some sort of semi-official policy to downvote them) is a good idea at present, for two reasons.

    1. Occasionally a "homework question" borders on a question at a higher level of mathematical sophistication, which someone else could then ask (see e.g. <a href="http://mathoverflow.net/questions/5323/infinitely-many-primes-of-the-form-2nc-as-n-varies">this question</a>) in which case it's a good idea to keep the question and answers visible for "historical reasons."

    2. More selfishly, there's the simple fact that not all such questions are created equal, and it's occasionally just <i>fun</i> to take a break from answering just the hard questions and answer a trivial-but-reasonable clueless undergrad question. If I were convinced that that would lead to MO turning into "homework help central," I'd understand de-incentivizing this behavior, but it hasn't so far, so cracking down on it seems kind of needlessly harsh.
    • CommentAuthorbbukh
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2009
     
    I think that the homework questions should be deleted without a trace, and whoever answered it should be awarded some negative reputation via moderator's action. It takes 5 downvotes to counter a single upvote, and there are simply not enough people to downvote every single homework question (not to forget that the system was designed to discourage downvoting, as it costs reputation). Just to explain: I have nothing against helping students, but if this site is to fulfill its mission as a forum for mathematicians, the moderators should be (inhumanely) ruthless about filtering the content that belongs to standard undergraduate curriculum in a decent university.
  9.  

    I'll post a longer rant about this later, but I would oppose deleting homework questions as long as people differ so broadly about what they think is homework. I've seen a lot of questions attacked as homework which don't ring my radar at all.

    • CommentAuthorbbukh
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2009
     
    Yes, people differ in what they think is a homework question, and I would be sorry to see the questions on which my assessment differs from those of others to be deleted. However, I much prefer to err on side on deleting question that happen to be easier than the poser thinks, rather than to allow gradual deterioration of the standards. In other words, I might disagree with the moderators, but I prefer their dictatorship to increasing the noise on MO (that includes soft-questions, by the way).
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeJan 12th 2010
     
    I recommend killing undergraduate homework questions without a trace. There are already great resources for these kinds of questions (I'm mainly thinking of Ask a Topologist and friends). We need a place like mathoverflow for more advanced mathematics.
  10.  
    I have to agree with David. My feeling is that some people are too quick on the trigger with respect to homework questions. While I definitely think that maintaining a high standard is important, it seems to me that a "false positive" on hw questions (especially if you jack up the penalties!) is much worse than a "false negative". Erring on the side of charity never hurt anyone!
  11.  
    We haven't really had too many homework questions in the past few weeks. However, I downvote any answers to homework problems if the person who had done so "Should have known better."