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This is obviously a long term idea. Ravi's funding might not last forever. If at some point MO needs to ask for other funds, it might be a good idea to become a tax deductible organization. This is especially true because Fog Creek might reduce or eliminate their fees for nonprofits: see http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/13742/stack-exchange-for-non-profits . Just thought I'd bring it up and see what our benevolent overlords think.
I might have missed something, but is Math Overflow a profit [company] at this moment?
No. Read the FAQ: “The hosting cost is paid from the research funds of our generous benefactor, Ravi Vakil of Stanford University.”
But if that cannot continue, a way must be found to cover the cost. There are certain legal requirements to become a non-profit organization. Not making a profit is insufficient.
I think it might be more trouble than it's worth because
So far, the cost of MO has been $0 since SE is still in beta (it will be at least two more months before the first bill comes). I think Ravi said he'd be willing to fund MO at $130/month (the lowest price bracket) for 5 years, which is basically forever, and he agreed to do that before we had anything concrete to show him, so I imagine it should be easy to get additional funding if we need to. Over the last month, we've gotten about 800,000 pageviews, so it's fairly likely that some time in the next year we'll break 1,000,000 pageviews per month, at which point we'll move from the $130/month price bracket to the $260/month price bracket. Given how level traffic has been over the last five weeks, I think we'll have a few months warning before that happens.
Since we'll probably eventually have to find some non-Ravi source of funding, let's make this thread a list of possible ways to reduce the gap between hosting costs and funding sources, should one arise. Here are some options, more or less in order of descending desirability:
$260/month price bracket
This seems to be totally within a computer budget of most math departments. I've heard that public universities in California currently have funding problems because of a crisis though.
Also, I'm not sure about NSF grant rules, but I think you can make a meetup conference about Math Overflow with $30 fee for everyone with a grant. This will also contribute to development of Math Overflow by bringing interested people together.
I've been involved a bit with Wikimania'06, and I think meetups can help the community a lot under right circumstances.
I have a completely different suggestion: use the $130 x 12 x 5 = $7800 to pay a starving undergraduate to recode the software to your specifications, given what you've learnt about this set-up. At the very least, it would mean that you could get the mathematics implementation right.
Reading a little of the Stackoverflow blog, I get the impression that $7800 wouldn't buy us a decent re-implementation of this software, unless we happened to get an exceptional starving undergraduate.
The other interesting thing I learnt from that blog was that the Stackexchange software runs on an almost entirely Microsoft stack!
You're probably referring to this post about technology stack of Stack Overfow.
But! At least, it's not their flagship product which runs on custom language invented by Joel.
@Andrew: the economy of scale appears to mean that it's easier/more efficient to live with what we have for now and wait for the authors of the Stack Exchange software to do it completely right.
Either way, I don't think they have any incentive to allow modifying the source code of Stack Exchange -- things would be so much likely to break across upgrades and its easier to prohibit modifications than be on call for lots of dissatisfied customers.
That's not what Jeff Attwood thinks.
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001284.html
The bit that I really don't understand is that given what he writes there, why doesn't he make the source open? He states that what makes SO a success is almost nothing to do with the software and everything to do with the experience and community. At the moment, MO has the community but I have to say that the experience is irritating. jsMath just looks awful, the lack of even a possibility of interaction is severely limiting (yes, yes, I know that this is by design but I say that for mathematicians this is bad design), ...
I don't think that the authors of the SE software will ever do it completely right. "Completely right" for them probably means something completely different to "completely right" for us.
Finally, thanks due to Ilya for posting the funniest thing so far:
Either way, I don't think they have any incentive to allow modifying the source code of Stack Exchange -- things would be so much likely to break across upgrades and its easier to prohibit modifications than be on call for lots of dissatisfied customers.
Absolutely right. I'd better make all my theorems closed source from now on. I don't want to get hassled when I do "upgrades". If you want to construct a Dirac operator on an infinite dimensional manifold then you have to ask me to do it for you - I don't want just anybody doing it and then suing me because they didn't do it correctly.
Let's assume they made the source code open -- this still means somebody has to design, code the modifications you need, test them, get feedback and repeat the process every time the new version of Stack Exchange comes out. Which I would love somebody else to do, but it sounds like a full-time programmer + designer job.
The post by Jeff seems to point in the same direction -- it's not hard to just code, it's hard to code something that improves the user experience.
I don't think that the authors of the SE software will ever do it completely right. "Completely right" for them probably means something completely different to "completely right" for us.
Not really, because the solution people have repeatedly asked them, and the thing I had in mind, is to allow writing plugins. This will be a safe and simple way to extend Stack Exchange functionality and then it will be possible to add better jsMath/talk/interaction abilities using just volunteer resources.
Absolutely right. I'd better make all my theorems closed source from now on. I don't want to get hassled when I do "upgrades". If you want to construct a Dirac operator on an infinite dimensional manifold then you have to ask me to do it for you - I don't want just anybody doing it and then suing me because they didn't do it correctly.
Well, if you were in business of selling people the right to read papers about Dirac operators at $100/month with full refund guarantee :) ...
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