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You should always always always e-mail the author first.
@Harry: In the comments to the question, Martin mentioned that he had emailed the author, but that the author was too busy.
Oh, then I have no problems with Martin posting it on MO, and further, I think he should undelete his question.
I agree with Harry that the question should be undeleted. I think questioning and being critical is extremely important to mathematics, and that this forum IS a good place for reports of possible errors.
In response to the tone of the post. The first version was probably ok. The later iterations were a bit incendiary. I think it is better to be a bit less intense when suggesting there are issues. I think a good way of posting this sort of thing, is saying that you think there might be an error, rather than asserting that the result is incorrect. However, I am far from the politeness police. You can choose to be as aggressive as you wish, but I think the comments reflected a preference for politeness.
Regarding you emailing Rosenberg. I have spoken with him about this. Yes, he is busy right now and of the opinion that you can resolve your difficulties on your own with your advisor. He also told me that one of the issues is that you want a simpler proof in a specific setting. Since he has not thought about this simpler proof, it is not surprising that he not create one for you. As I told you in personal email, working through his machinery might be advantageous to you, even though it can appear daunting.
Please reopen the question for at least the reason that you can answer it after you understand Ofer Gabber's and Zoran Skoda's correspondence with you . Others(at least I) would be interested to hear these things.
DISCLAIMER: I do NOT speak for Rosenberg. I do NOT speak for the MO community. This is just my interpretation of the situation. I cannot answer the questions that you have asked, and unfortunately don't have time right now to attempt to.
I tend to agree with Andy; although I have in the past asked a question about an erroneous theorem in a book I was studying and one of the answers saved me potentially a lot of time. So I think that we should perhaps exercise caution and treat each case on its individual merits. I have no opinion on this particular question, though.
@Andy: Even in the case that the author has been e-mailed?
@Andy: I'm inclined to agree with Noah and Bryan on this. Could you explain your reasoning?
@Andy After reading your comment, I realized the somewhat obvious issue with this. Am I correct in assuming that your worry is that every time someone doesn't understand a result in a paper, they post it as a purported mistake, and this will lead to an enormous amount of garbage questions on MO.
I overlooked this in my last post because I was thinking of the situation at hand, which is quite far from this situation.
So now I revise my position to I don't know.
I strongly agree with Andy. The issue is not (just) getting bad questions. Rather, it is that one should always be very polite and cautious in pointing out possible mistakes in other peoples work, and a widely read professional forum does not lend itself to such politeness and caution.
An important point to remember is that claiming a new result, especially a significant one, involves putting oneself right out on the edge, and there is always the danger of coming a cropper. One has to be respectful of this. On the one hand, if you made a mistake in a paper, you would presumably rather not have people trumpeting this all over MO, but would prefer to get the chance to quitely withdraw the claim; it's just professional courtesy to offer the same opportunity to others. On the other hand, if you are incorrect in your claim of a mistake, then you look somewhat foolish, and the author accused of making a mistake may well get annoyed. It's better to prevent such possibilities by not initiating them in the first place.
There is a reason that experienced mathematicians begin questions about another person's work (even if they have their doubts) with the expression "I don't understand [such-and-such in your argument]", putting the fault on themselves, not the person whose work it is. If there really is a mistake, it will come out with patient questioning, and if not, one avoids having egg on one's face.
P.S. I think Noah's suggest question, "I don't understand step X", is fine. This is the kind of question people ask all the time. It is very different to an accusation of a mistake.
I agree with the recent posts of Andy and Emerton 100%. My mistake above was not putting this in perspective.
Thanks for the good advice from those above, I am glad I will never have to make this mistake myself.
It seems like the only thing at issue here is how diplomatically the question is worded. Is that a fair assessment?
Dear Harry,
Diplomacy is part of it, but I think is more than this; it is a question of mind-set. I can tell you from being on the other side that having someone suggest that you have made a mistake, when in fact they are just misunderstanding, can be very frustrating. If you (by which I mean "one", not you in particular) think you have found a mistake in someone's work, it is just as likely (and probably more so, in my experience) that you are simply misunderstanding.
So I think such questions should be asked with a presumption that one is misunderstanding things, rather than that there is a mistake.
Regards,
Matt
Dear Matt,
Ah, okay. I thought that was just a given. However, I didn't read Martin's question, so I don't know how he asked it. I have asked such questions on MO before, and I always presume that it is either my misunderstanding or a typo (the book I'm referencing has very terse proofs as well as a veritable multitude of typos (and by typo, I mean something more like "small (albeit confusing) error that is inconsequential to the conclusions of the proof")).
(The comment above has quadruply nested delimiters =X)
Martin-
The issue isn't this particular example and whether you were right or wrong. I think at this point, this thread is clearly about how we deal in general with discussing potential errors in papers on MO. I'm not sure we've hit an consensus yet, but it's turned to a general question about what happens next time around, not the merits of your case.
Preprints are public domain
What a remarkably odd thing to say. I expect you mean to say anybody can access and read them, which is not at all the same thing.
Preprints should be public domain, as in, there is no legitimate reason why researchers should care about their copyrights (unless, in the converse case (reverse? inverse? complementary?), when only subscribers to a certain journal can read the paper). A paper being public domain does not mean that anyone can just plagiarize from it, simply because academia deals with plagiarism by other means.
I don't think that copyright law is ever a real cause for concern to people who engage in academic dishonesty or other fraud in general.
A colleague of mine had one of his preprints appear in some obscure journal once to which he had not submitted it. They just took it and published it without asking. This caused him some trouble when he himself submitted the paper to a different journal, being unaware at the time what had happened. After this experience, he always puts a copyright notice on all his preprints. Whether this is a more or less effective way of dealing with the problem than academic sanctions is unknown to me.
@Harry: that is extremely naive and misguided. Re-publication of your written words can happen outside the academic community, by unscrupulous publishers and such.
A paper being public domain does not mean that anyone can just plagiarize from it, simply because academia deals with plagiarism by other means.
Your faith is touching...
Your faith is touching...
By faith, I guess, you mean naïveté?
that is extremely naive and misguided. Re-publication of your written words can happen outside the academic community, by unscrupulous publishers and such.
Which raises the question, what kind of scrupulous publisher charges obscene amounts of money for access to work done by other people for free?
(Well, in Europe. America has no notion of "moral rights".)
Yeah, but in America, copyright lasts until something stupid, like a hundred years after your death.
Preprints need not be public domain, but published papes should be. Once you've obtained the "journal credit" you no longer should protect your work from being published without your consent. (And I certainly don't think that the inital publisher should control future use/publication of the work!)
This is more in line with what I was thinking. It just came out dumber because I've never spoken with anyone about the process of publishing a paper.
I am sorry, but many of you are speaking in generalities and innuendo, but I don't understand. Could you be more specific? Herald's explanation was useful for instance, but posts like Yemon's and Willy's are unnerving but confusing. What are you two referring to? I feel like this is something that is very useful for young mathematicians to know. Sorry for being so naive, I just have never ran into this before.
@Sam: Yes, I realize this. My comment was that copyright law is sufficiently strong in the US already. I have no desire to make it any stronger.
You are free to republish my work under my name, because my work is (almost completely) in the public domain.
+1 for practicing what you preach.
@Harald - your story is the first time I've heard of a preprint (as opposed to a paper) being published without the author's permission. Was it published under your colleague's name?
Yes. It is the only such story I have heard, too. It was clearly an attempt by the journal to pad their pages with some good quality material, not an attempt at stealing credit for the result.
@Sam: The story is getting old (possibly a decade or more), so I think it's a bit late for an academic solution. Or even any solution. If the journal is still afloat, maybe they have mended their ways. In any case, I'd have to ask my colleague for details and for permission to share them. I have forgotten much of it myself. If intensely curious, feel free to email me. My email address is not hard to find.
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